Prisoners have constitutional rights?

NearHi · 10-27-2008, 04:36 PM

Sent to me by my good friend Landon
Link to news article

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landon

Pardon me here a moment, but why is it that we treat our criminals better than we do our citizens?

Not only do they have access to free room and board, no utility costs, no taxes, no IRS forms to fill out, free food (it may be crap food but when you compare it to the food served in elementary cafeteria, how much worse can it be?), a non-subscription based gym, probably has internet access (albeit limited but not much different than what you may expect from a library), but also free healthcare for not just physical but also psychological disorders!

Now of course the cons to this situation is that you're in a PMITA prison where you may get seriously harmed or killed at any moment in time, your life is rigidly structured around a specific schedule which is coordinated with all inmates, and you are segregated by gender,

But when you think about it, depending on the neighborhood that you live in or how the people around you drive, death or serious harm can come at you just as often, the way you schedule your life is often dictated by other forces around you (specifically work schedule, finances, transportation issues, etc), and while the raping is most likely less often, you certain feel it when you get your utility/credit card/mortgage/IRS tax/Student Loans/grocery bills.

Does anyone else see how messed up our priorities are?

I do.

Zaquis · 10-27-2008, 04:39 PM

are you fucking serious

Howell · 10-27-2008, 04:42 PM

Yes I fuckin do see it. Pretty fucked up

NearHi · 10-27-2008, 04:44 PM

I hate Arpaio and all.... but prisoners should not have half the shit they do have.

Andres · 10-27-2008, 04:57 PM

Your friend is a moron.

Prisoners have no freedom. Those "free" things that are listed on the first paragraph are the basic necessities that they need to be provided for because due to their lack of freedom, they can't provide themselves.

Prisoners have "free healthcare" because they can't just get insured. Prisoners have "free food" because they can't possibly buy food and cook for themselves. Prisoners have "free room and board" because they are locked up, etc.

Go commit a crime and go to jail and then tell us how awesome it is.

Zaquis · 10-27-2008, 05:03 PM

also prisoners can't vote which is one of the more minor atrocities in the american prison system

Andres · 10-27-2008, 05:06 PM

Besides that, how are "our priorities messed up"?

Is there something inherently wrong about giving healthcare to a prisoner? I don't understand what your friend's point is. That because they were found guilty of a crime, they deserve to go to the back of the line in terms of basic human rights? No one gets priorities in terms of their rights. That's why they're human rights, not law-abiding citizen rights.

Phil Williamson · 10-27-2008, 05:30 PM

haha c'mon man you're not this dumb
what exactly do you propose as an alternative?

Zaquis · 10-27-2008, 05:59 PM

leave 'em all to die. they're criminals and criminals don't deserve health care, food, or any sort of safety. they deserve a taste of their own medicine. they deserve to live in a constant state of fear of losing all that is precious to them, of being violated and torn apart. they are no longer human, they deserve to enter the medieval dark ages knockoff that is the US prison system

i also, coincidentally, am white and have never even sat in the back of a cop car other than one time i got caught with weed heh no worries tho

Slime · 10-27-2008, 05:59 PM

Wow, this thread is really ridiculous. We don't treat prisoners like complete shitheads because they are still human. We want the majority of our prisoners to come out of prison a better person.
Everything you mentioned has a reason to be provided. We aren't gonna lock people up with no form of physical release (the gym). We aren't going to NOT FEED THEM, what the hell? No utility costs? Are you serious?

Besides, what happens when they don't pay utilities, their cell lights go off? Hahah

Zaquis · 10-27-2008, 06:01 PM

THERE IS NO JUSTICE. THERE IS ONLY VENGEANCE. VENGEANCE IS ALL THAT BOILS IN THE CAULDRON OF MY FILTHY BLACK HEART.

Skittlebrau · 10-27-2008, 06:15 PM

Jesus fucking christ. I'm going to just dissect this one, because I can't rightly cover whats wrong with it in one stroke.

Quote:

Pardon me here a moment, but why is it that we treat our criminals better than we do our citizens?

Not only do they have access to free room and board the idea of a prison cell as a "free room" would be funny if you weren't serious. A one-room apartment with a toilet, a bunk bed, and a roommate, in the shittiest neighborhood you can possibly imagine. YEAHOK, no utility costs for WHAT, the toilet? besides..., no taxes they are NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE OR SPEND MONEY. You wouldn't have taxes either if you spent ZERO DOLLARS a year, no IRS forms to fill out you poor bastard, I bet those forms just make your life hell. Again, no money whatsoever, free food (it may be crap food but when you compare it to the food served in elementary cafeteria, how much worse can it be?) mainly a bag of oversalted corn chips, with (limit one) packet of salsa, water, and occasionally fruit salad or some kind of potato, once or twice a day. you ignorant fuck., a non-subscription based gym they have benches and weights. thats all there is to do in prison. there isn't a fucking squash court. they don't have a fucking Stairmaster., probably has internet access (albeit limited but not much different than what you may expect from a library) only in higher-end minimum-security prisons, but also free healthcare for not just physical but also psychological disorders in addition to the point of NO MONEY AT ALL, keep in mind that these are both necessities in a place where you can get the shit kicked (or stabbed) out of you at any time. Not to mention, helping to take care of psychological disorders has this thing where it makes people not want to be criminals anymore. Why a prison would do that, I don't know.

Now of course the cons to this situation is that you're in a PMITA prison where you may get seriously harmed or killed at any moment in time, your life is rigidly structured around a specific schedule which is coordinated with all inmates, and you are segregated by gender. yeah?

But when you think about it, depending on the neighborhood that you live in or how the people around you drive, death or serious harm can come at you just as often you just compared street crime and FUCKING CAR ACCIDENTS to the hierarchical, hyperaggressive environment of prison. YOU ASS. There is a difference between "random happenstance could lead to my death at any moment", and "any one of the people I'm constantly in close contact with could harm or kill me for no other reason than they don't like me.", the way you schedule your life is often dictated by other forces around you (specifically work schedule, finances, transportation issues, etc) OH POOR LOWER-MIDDLE-CLASS YOU. At the end of the day, you can still decide when you eat and sleep., and while the raping is most likely less often, you certain feel it when you get your utility/credit card/mortgage/IRS tax/Student Loans/grocery bills. OHO, I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE! You compared common financial burdens to being REGULARLY SODOMIZED AGAINST YOUR WILL! Yeah, I can certainly see how a frustrating and preoccupying financial problem would be a lot like an extremely physically painful and emotionally damaging assault repeated over and over across a course of so many months.

Does anyone else see how messed up our priorities are? in summation, fuck you

NearHi · 10-27-2008, 08:46 PM

Honestly, I think prison should be a cell. That's it. Why should they deserve a gym? If they want exercise they should do jumping jacks and sit ups in their cell. No field time, just cell. They shouldn't have TVs in prison. TV is a luxury and prisoners do not deserve it. They shouldn't have "good" food. They should get water, a bread, a protien and a vitamin to give them the "basics" for survival.
I don't think they should have health insurance, no. If I can't get it as a law abiding citizen then the felons should not be able to get it.
Maximum Security Prisoners should have dick. Metaphorically and physically.

Crazy Ivan · 10-27-2008, 09:02 PM

PEOPLE CAUGHT SELLING WEED ARE LESS THAN HUMAN.

NearHi · 10-27-2008, 09:08 PM

I doubt that many people go to Maximun Security Prison their first time getting caught... but I could be wrong.

Andres · 10-27-2008, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce Farlow

I don't think they should have health insurance, no.

This point literally makes no sense.

Are you honestly saying that if you are guilty of a crime, the state should let you die if you catch a disease?

Even ignoring the cruelty of that treatment, do you realize that infectious diseases can affect every prisoner in jail anyway, especially with lack of proper healthcare within? Do you just want to put people in a bacteria death trap?

NearHi · 10-27-2008, 09:14 PM

More of a reason to not want to go to jail.

Andres · 10-27-2008, 09:20 PM

What does that even mean? Make a proper argument.

NearHi · 10-27-2008, 09:25 PM

I don't want to ever go to jail because I don't want to fight. I don't like fighting. I don't want to have to join a gang in order to survive. I don't want to be a girlfried of bubba. I don't want to be shenked.
Add disease and filth to the mix and it's one more thing to help me avoid jail.
I am tounge in cheek here.
I do think that prisoners should have basic heath care needs, but not "insurance."
That makes it sould they they can have all the health care needs that I pay $150 a paycheck for, for free.
I still stand firm, however, that all luxuries like a sports field, a gym, and TV should be taken away.

Notch Johnson · 10-27-2008, 09:27 PM

prison is a means to strip criminals of their freedom and separate them from society. it's civil.

we're not trying to deprive criminals of their fundamental rights. otherwise we'd skip prison and just chop of their hands or something.

edit: and i'd make the argument that certain small luxuries like a TV or radio helps maintain mental stability. you can't expect people to just sit quietly in a room for twenty years.

NearHi · 10-27-2008, 09:39 PM

Yes. Yes I can.

Aaron Haynes · 10-27-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryce Farlow

I still stand firm, however, that all luxuries like a sports field, a gym, and TV should be taken away.

All prisoners are scum that can't be saved or rehabilitated, then? Anyone serving a sentence deserves no entertainment or stimulation -- they should just sit in a dark room and think about what they've done, every day, for every year.

I guess when they're let back into the world they can spend a couple of weeks "catching up" on what life is like.

These luxuries should be rewards for good behavior, or at least taken away for bad behavior, but the fact that you think someone serving a ten-year sentence doesn't deserve to see the news or get some basic exercise or read a book is pretty dehumanizing. Do you have no concept of what happens to the human mind when it spends years or decades with no outside stimulation or even the promise of reward? Of course you don't -- you've never spent more than a few minutes thinking about crime and criminals, and obviously in an extremely oversimplified way.

Andres · 10-27-2008, 09:56 PM

Yes. I don't think you have thought this through well at all. I don't think you have seriously contemplated just what being in a tiny cell and getting some extremely basic food and not allowed to do anything truly means, other than the complete and utter destruction of a mind and a completely dehumanizing punishment.

NearHi · 10-27-2008, 09:58 PM

Did I say they can't read books or periodicals? I didn't.
Basic exercise does not include a gym nor a basketball court and stuff, that's what I meant by the field, soz. It should be a dirt lot and they can run around to thier hearts content, but they shouldn't have anything else.

When it comes to rehabilitation that's a whole different story which I am all for. The health insurance and mental health deal they have is not a rehablitation proccess.

Bobby Swisha · 10-27-2008, 10:01 PM

I think we should give prisoners free internet. Cause I hate writing my friend in jail, it would be so much easier to just email him.

10-27-2008, 04:39 PM	#2
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583	are you fucking serious
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583

10-27-2008, 04:42 PM	#3
Howell Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,290	Yes I fuckin do see it. Pretty fucked up
Howell Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,290

10-27-2008, 04:44 PM	#4
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483	I hate Arpaio and all.... but prisoners should not have half the shit they do have.
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483

10-27-2008, 04:57 PM	#5
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	Your friend is a moron. Prisoners have no freedom. Those "free" things that are listed on the first paragraph are the basic necessities that they need to be provided for because due to their lack of freedom, they can't provide themselves. Prisoners have "free healthcare" because they can't just get insured. Prisoners have "free food" because they can't possibly buy food and cook for themselves. Prisoners have "free room and board" because they are locked up, etc. Go commit a crime and go to jail and then tell us how awesome it is.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

10-27-2008, 05:03 PM	#6
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583	also prisoners can't vote which is one of the more minor atrocities in the american prison system
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583

10-27-2008, 05:06 PM	#7
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	Besides that, how are "our priorities messed up"? Is there something inherently wrong about giving healthcare to a prisoner? I don't understand what your friend's point is. That because they were found guilty of a crime, they deserve to go to the back of the line in terms of basic human rights? No one gets priorities in terms of their rights. That's why they're human rights, not law-abiding citizen rights.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

10-27-2008, 05:30 PM	#8
Phil Williamson Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 16,900	haha c'mon man you're not this dumb what exactly do you propose as an alternative?

10-27-2008, 05:59 PM	#9
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583	leave 'em all to die. they're criminals and criminals don't deserve health care, food, or any sort of safety. they deserve a taste of their own medicine. they deserve to live in a constant state of fear of losing all that is precious to them, of being violated and torn apart. they are no longer human, they deserve to enter the medieval dark ages knockoff that is the US prison system i also, coincidentally, am white and have never even sat in the back of a cop car other than one time i got caught with weed heh no worries tho
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583

10-27-2008, 05:59 PM	#10
Slime Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 24,891	Wow, this thread is really ridiculous. We don't treat prisoners like complete shitheads because they are still human. We want the majority of our prisoners to come out of prison a better person. Everything you mentioned has a reason to be provided. We aren't gonna lock people up with no form of physical release (the gym). We aren't going to NOT FEED THEM, what the hell? No utility costs? Are you serious? Besides, what happens when they don't pay utilities, their cell lights go off? Hahah
Slime Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 24,891

10-27-2008, 06:01 PM	#11
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583	THERE IS NO JUSTICE. THERE IS ONLY VENGEANCE. VENGEANCE IS ALL THAT BOILS IN THE CAULDRON OF MY FILTHY BLACK HEART.
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583

10-27-2008, 08:46 PM	#13
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483	Honestly, I think prison should be a cell. That's it. Why should they deserve a gym? If they want exercise they should do jumping jacks and sit ups in their cell. No field time, just cell. They shouldn't have TVs in prison. TV is a luxury and prisoners do not deserve it. They shouldn't have "good" food. They should get water, a bread, a protien and a vitamin to give them the "basics" for survival. I don't think they should have health insurance, no. If I can't get it as a law abiding citizen then the felons should not be able to get it. Maximum Security Prisoners should have dick. Metaphorically and physically.
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483

10-27-2008, 09:02 PM	#14
Crazy Ivan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 9,462	PEOPLE CAUGHT SELLING WEED ARE LESS THAN HUMAN.

10-27-2008, 09:08 PM	#15
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483	I doubt that many people go to Maximun Security Prison their first time getting caught... but I could be wrong.
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483

10-27-2008, 09:14 PM	#17
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483	More of a reason to not want to go to jail.
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483

10-27-2008, 09:20 PM	#18
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	What does that even mean? Make a proper argument.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

10-27-2008, 09:25 PM	#19
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483	I don't want to ever go to jail because I don't want to fight. I don't like fighting. I don't want to have to join a gang in order to survive. I don't want to be a girlfried of bubba. I don't want to be shenked. Add disease and filth to the mix and it's one more thing to help me avoid jail. I am tounge in cheek here. I do think that prisoners should have basic heath care needs, but not "insurance." That makes it sould they they can have all the health care needs that I pay $150 a paycheck for, for free. I still stand firm, however, that all luxuries like a sports field, a gym, and TV should be taken away.
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483

10-27-2008, 09:27 PM	#20
Notch Johnson Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,503	prison is a means to strip criminals of their freedom and separate them from society. it's civil. we're not trying to deprive criminals of their fundamental rights. otherwise we'd skip prison and just chop of their hands or something. edit: and i'd make the argument that certain small luxuries like a TV or radio helps maintain mental stability. you can't expect people to just sit quietly in a room for twenty years.

10-27-2008, 09:39 PM	#21
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483	Yes. Yes I can.
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483

10-27-2008, 09:56 PM	#23
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	Yes. I don't think you have thought this through well at all. I don't think you have seriously contemplated just what being in a tiny cell and getting some extremely basic food and not allowed to do anything truly means, other than the complete and utter destruction of a mind and a completely dehumanizing punishment.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

10-27-2008, 09:58 PM	#24
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483	Did I say they can't read books or periodicals? I didn't. Basic exercise does not include a gym nor a basketball court and stuff, that's what I meant by the field, soz. It should be a dirt lot and they can run around to thier hearts content, but they shouldn't have anything else. When it comes to rehabilitation that's a whole different story which I am all for. The health insurance and mental health deal they have is not a rehablitation proccess.
NearHi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,483

10-27-2008, 10:01 PM	#25
Bobby Swisha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 46,012	I think we should give prisoners free internet. Cause I hate writing my friend in jail, it would be so much easier to just email him.