Is there any legitimate reason not to vote?

Aaron Haynes · 10-01-2008, 07:27 AM

Explain.

Optional: If not, is there any moral obligation to vote for the viable candidate closest in line with your politics, if you think the other viable choice would be a disaster for the country?

Crazy Ivan · 10-01-2008, 07:29 AM

Are you asking for permission to vote for Bob Barr?

Phil Williamson · 10-01-2008, 07:38 AM

Is there any legitimate reason to vote?

Aaron Haynes · 10-01-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Ivan

Are you asking for permission to vote for Bob Barr?

No, but the "moral obligation" argument is one of the more interesting phenomena of American politics and I was wondering what people here thought about it. Both in the original question and in the "major political party candidate" sense.

Even though Obama is the first major-party candidate I've been excited enough to not only support, but actually admire, it's worth thinking about. I like comparing principle and practicality on a philosophical level.

Jesterfoot · 10-01-2008, 07:42 AM

Yes. If the person in question is too stupid and ignorant to make a decent choice.

If I were stupid and ignorant, I would do my part for this country by not submitting my baseless vote.

Aaron Haynes · 10-01-2008, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Williamson

Is there any legitimate reason to vote?

Vote for the principle, vote major-party for the practicality. Speaking of paradoxes....

Aaron Haynes · 10-01-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesterfoot

Yes. If the person in question is too stupid and ignorant to make a decent choice.

If I were stupid and ignorant, I would do my part for this country by not submitting my baseless vote.

I see this as kind of a false solution -- if you [generic] are smart enough to know you're not informed, you should probably get informed enough to make a decision rather than just not vote. It somehow seems even stupider to me than not voting out of apathy or cynicism, because it's a tacit admission that you're too stupid and lazy to deserve a stake in the country's leadership.

Shaun · 10-01-2008, 08:08 AM

there are plenty of reasons not to vote:

-you have other shit to that day
-the election doesn't really affect you personally, so who cares
-politics are boring
-it's like, a 10 minute drive to the voting booth.
-you don't know if you're registered and it's a pain in the ass to find out

Jesterfoot · 10-01-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Haynes

I see this as kind of a false solution -- if you [generic] are smart enough to know you're not informed, you should probably get informed enough to make a decision rather than just not vote. It somehow seems even stupider to me than not voting out of apathy or cynicism, because it's a tacit admission that you're too stupid and lazy to deserve a stake in the country's leadership.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people comfortable with that. But though I obviously agree that it's better to get informed and vote, I'd wouldn't disagree with the people who are too stupid or lazy to get informed, if they decided not to vote.

Results would be much better if only informed people voted.

Domicile Destructo · 10-01-2008, 08:15 AM

I'm voting because I suppose it gives me a feeling of "at least I tried", but I don't think that people who don't vote are stupid or ignorant. I don't really know how to explain it without sounding like a nihilistic asshole, but I can easily see how someone could feel like voting is an exercise in futility.

Maritheclap · 10-01-2008, 08:27 AM

I vote, and it is my belief that other people should also vote, but I have heard some fairly intelligent arguments stating different, so I think its an individual choice.

McJuicy · 10-01-2008, 11:19 AM

Is there an option for "none of the above" on your ballot?
cause if you do have that then no there is no excuse for not voting

Andres · 10-01-2008, 02:34 PM

Your country apparently doesn't have a "none" vote or whatever, so yes there is a reason not to vote.

Compcat · 10-01-2008, 02:35 PM

I definitely think people totally ignorant of politics should not vote. Also if the two major candidates are both douchebags (they are now) then I say don't vote or vote for someone else (even though they obviously won't win). Stupid people turn the election into a two-party system easily manipulated by the media simply because they think it "practical" to vote for the lesser of two evils.

Andres · 10-01-2008, 02:38 PM

"Stupid people" didn't turn America into a two-party system.

Zaquis · 10-01-2008, 02:55 PM

a man was getting people to register to vote. he asked if i registered and i said no, so he gave me a form. another man walked by and the first man asked, "Hey, have you registered to vote?"

the other man said no, and so he asked if he would like to register, and the man said no again.

he then asked why he wouldn't register, and the man responded with, "there are powerful forces at play here. If you look at the numbers, there is no way bush won the last election. there is simply no way. america is now just a corporate playground for the government elites to control our day-to-day lives without us having any say. i'm not sure who exactly, but there are some dark forces at work in this country. dark, evil forces."

i looked up and said "write-in ron paul, dude."

he shook his head and sighed, "if only..." then walked away

not sure i'd want that guy to vote

Dominator Dan · 10-01-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

there are plenty of reasons not to vote:

-you have other shit to that day
-the election doesn't really affect you personally, so who cares
-politics are boring
-it's like, a 10 minute drive to the voting booth.
-you don't know if you're registered and it's a pain in the ass to find out

hahaha, while i think the second reason is a bit ignorant, YES!

Zaquis · 10-01-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Haynes

No, but the "moral obligation" argument is one of the more interesting phenomena of American politics and I was wondering what people here thought about it. Both in the original question and in the "major political party candidate" sense.

Even though Obama is the first major-party candidate I've been excited enough to not only support, but actually admire, it's worth thinking about. I like comparing principle and practicality on a philosophical level.

explain to me why you are excited about obama because to me he essentially seems like another warmongering, corporatist empty suit with a shiny new black paint job

Shaun · 10-01-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andres

Your country apparently doesn't have a "none" vote or whatever, so yes there is a reason not to vote.

Uhh.. what would happen if everybody voted "none"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominator Dan

hahaha, while i think the second reason is a bit ignorant, YES!

i hope you know i'm joking

Lord Blazer · 10-01-2008, 03:12 PM

I wouldn't want Clinton Moore to vote

Dominator Dan · 10-01-2008, 03:20 PM

Andres · 10-01-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

Uhh.. what would happen if everybody voted "none"?

Something problematic? I don't know.

Most other countries have runoff systems and their elections are a little trickier. In Colombia for example, there is a first round of elections and you have to obtain I believe 50% of the vote in order to win the election, otherwise the two highest polling candidates get sent to a second election that decides the winner.

In a case like that, if people voted "none" en masse that would shift the proportions and could possibly prevent someone from winning on the first round, which gives the opposition time to rally around a second candidate (whoever became 2nd) or something.

Legitimacy also adds to it. Here in the U.S. that is not very common, because people respect the office fully and almost every President is allowed to serve his or her full term completely, but in other countries this is not as common and presidents fall to scandals or coups or popular riots often. If you get elected by a "majority" when a considerable amount of people voted for "no one" that is a big sign that your presidency is not really the people's presidency and that democracy in that election season is not representative of the people.

Molotov · 10-01-2008, 03:55 PM

I voted yes, but after thinking about it more I'm just undecided.

Zaquis · 10-01-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaquis

explain to me why you are excited about obama because to me he essentially seems like another warmongering, corporatist empty suit with a shiny new black paint job

not trolling i am genuinely curious about what sets obama apart from most past candidates

Bobby Swisha · 10-01-2008, 04:55 PM

Zach, it's not a paintjob, that's how he was born.

View Poll Results: Is there any legitimate reason not to vote?
Yes	23	74.19%
No	8	25.81%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

10-01-2008, 07:27 AM	#1
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	Is there any legitimate reason not to vote? Explain. Optional: If not, is there any moral obligation to vote for the viable candidate closest in line with your politics, if you think the other viable choice would be a disaster for the country?

10-01-2008, 08:08 AM	#8
Shaun Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,881	there are plenty of reasons not to vote: -you have other shit to that day -the election doesn't really affect you personally, so who cares -politics are boring -it's like, a 10 minute drive to the voting booth. -you don't know if you're registered and it's a pain in the ass to find out
Shaun Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,881

10-01-2008, 11:19 AM	#12
McJuicy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8,786	Is there an option for "none of the above" on your ballot? cause if you do have that then no there is no excuse for not voting
McJuicy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8,786

10-01-2008, 02:34 PM	#13
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	Your country apparently doesn't have a "none" vote or whatever, so yes there is a reason not to vote.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

10-01-2008, 07:29 AM	#2
Crazy Ivan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 9,462	Are you asking for permission to vote for Bob Barr?

10-01-2008, 07:38 AM	#3
Phil Williamson Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 16,900	Is there any legitimate reason to vote?

10-01-2008, 07:42 AM	#5
Jesterfoot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 7,470	Yes. If the person in question is too stupid and ignorant to make a decent choice. If I were stupid and ignorant, I would do my part for this country by not submitting my baseless vote.

10-01-2008, 08:15 AM	#10
Domicile Destructo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7,405	I'm voting because I suppose it gives me a feeling of "at least I tried", but I don't think that people who don't vote are stupid or ignorant. I don't really know how to explain it without sounding like a nihilistic asshole, but I can easily see how someone could feel like voting is an exercise in futility.

10-01-2008, 08:27 AM	#11
Maritheclap Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,916	I vote, and it is my belief that other people should also vote, but I have heard some fairly intelligent arguments stating different, so I think its an individual choice.

10-01-2008, 02:35 PM	#14
Compcat Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 8,810	I definitely think people totally ignorant of politics should not vote. Also if the two major candidates are both douchebags (they are now) then I say don't vote or vote for someone else (even though they obviously won't win). Stupid people turn the election into a two-party system easily manipulated by the media simply because they think it "practical" to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Compcat Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 8,810

10-01-2008, 02:38 PM	#15
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	"Stupid people" didn't turn America into a two-party system.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

10-01-2008, 02:55 PM	#16
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583	a man was getting people to register to vote. he asked if i registered and i said no, so he gave me a form. another man walked by and the first man asked, "Hey, have you registered to vote?" the other man said no, and so he asked if he would like to register, and the man said no again. he then asked why he wouldn't register, and the man responded with, "there are powerful forces at play here. If you look at the numbers, there is no way bush won the last election. there is simply no way. america is now just a corporate playground for the government elites to control our day-to-day lives without us having any say. i'm not sure who exactly, but there are some dark forces at work in this country. dark, evil forces." i looked up and said "write-in ron paul, dude." he shook his head and sighed, "if only..." then walked away not sure i'd want that guy to vote
Zaquis Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 15,583

10-01-2008, 03:12 PM	#20
Lord Blazer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 16,879	I wouldn't want Clinton Moore to vote

10-01-2008, 03:20 PM	#21
Dominator Dan Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 11,564	oops

10-01-2008, 03:55 PM	#23
Molotov Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,858	I voted yes, but after thinking about it more I'm just undecided.
Molotov Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,858

10-01-2008, 04:55 PM	#25
Bobby Swisha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 46,012	Zach, it's not a paintjob, that's how he was born.