why i am boting for bush

Andres · 02-24-2008, 08:50 PM

I have a feeling this is going to be a huge debate.

If I hated everything Bush stood for, except this one particular area, I would still have to vote for Bush. There is one thing that I think is far more important than how a president will effect my social status, or how much my taxes will be raised or lowered, or if I will have to go through a long application process to purchase a firearm, or if gay people can get married, etc.

To me, the issue of abortion, single handedly, outweighs all of that. I think it's murder. Some people don't, that's fine. But from my perspective, there have been over 50 million legal murders in the US. That's the holocaust, many times over.

The latest CNN poll showed that, for the first time in several years, more Americans are against abortion than those that are for it. I think if Bush gets back in, and we get some good dudes in the judicial branch, abortion can be overturned. In my opinion, that is the best thing that could possibly happen to this country.

But many people are more concerned about how the new president will affect their small businesses and finances. If you believe abortion is murder, I don' see how you could vote for Kerry, unless you are more concerned with finances than you are dying children.

And I'm sure someone will say, "Well there are lots of soldiers dying at war because of Bush." That's fine, I dont have a problem with that statment... but the numbers are no where close. 50 million compared to... whatever the death toll in Iraq is now.

On top of that, Kerry wants me to pay for other peoples abortions. I'm not paying to help murder a child.

EDIT: THIS HAS TURNED INTO A DEBATE OVER JOHN KERRYS POLITICS CONCERNING DEABTE, SO TO SAVE YOU SOME TIME, HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS:

Ok, how about this Kerry quote, from some NARAL Pro-Choice conference:

"I think that tonight we have to make it clear that we are not going to turn back the clock. There is no overturning of Roe v. Wade... There is no outlawing of a procedure necessary to save a woman's life or health and there are no more cutbacks on population control efforts around the world. We need to take on this President and all of the forces of intolerance on this issue. We need to honestly and confidently and candidly take this issue out to the country and we need to speak up and be proud of what we stand for."

Population Control? That's pretty extreme.

From the Boston Herald on January 23, 2001: "I will not back away from my conviction that international family planning programs are in America's best interests. We should resist pressures in this country for heavy-handed Washington mandates that ignore basic choices that should belong to free people around the globe."

Basic choices that should belong to free people around the globe?

I can tell you exactly what kerry believes, in short...

Abortion sholdn't be a primary option, and should be used as little as possible, HOWEVER, he feels it is the right of every American to make that choice whenever the time comes. So he thinks it's bad, but he thinks everyone can still get one if they want. The result is the same as someone who is pro-abortion.

There is really no arguing that this is his standpoint. He has made it very clear many times. He tries gain the favor of both sides by saying that he thinks it should be a last resort (attempt to gain pro-life favor) but everyone should be able to make the choice for themself (attempt to gain pro-choice favor). His personal standpoint on the issue becomes irreleveant if he doesn't legislate it... Which he will not do.

It's no different than being pro-choice.

Fredrick · 02-24-2008, 08:53 PM

I didn't come to the testing forum to read posts this long.

Aaron Haynes · 02-24-2008, 08:54 PM

Melrose from the "Why I am voting for GWB" thread. you changed the title

There was the anti-abortion group who visited the campus at UNCA once or twice a semester, and set up these massive displays with pictures of bloody aborted fetuses all over the quad, so everyone could see them on their way to class. The last semester I was there, they moved the whole display to in front of the cafeteria, and accosted anyone who walked by with pamphlets and questions about our thoughts on abortion.

Raz · 02-24-2008, 08:55 PM

<3 melrose

Pirate Balloon · 02-24-2008, 08:57 PM

ahah i love christians

Pizza The Hut · 02-24-2008, 08:58 PM

Hahaha, that is the best post EVER.

Richard Bevis · 02-24-2008, 09:04 PM

I've never really thought about abortion, or infact politics for that matter. But I stopped to read that post and found it actually quite chilling.

Deano · 02-24-2008, 09:28 PM

I hated that thread, it shattered my opinion of melrose into a million christian peices. Worst post in this forum's history.

Bobby Swisha · 02-25-2008, 05:36 AM

whatever happened to him? did he get married or whatever?

Rabid Dinosaur · 02-25-2008, 05:45 AM

Yes, and he's still around sometimes.

Bobby Swisha · 02-25-2008, 06:22 AM

LOL!! He actually got married! That's kinda unexpected. Good for him though.

Phil Williamson · 02-25-2008, 11:00 AM

I think that's a very reasonable argument. if I thought life began at conception I would be with him all the way. no idea why this was jumped on so hard, sheesh.

Crazy Ivan · 02-25-2008, 11:23 AM

WE GOTS 10 MORE MONTHS TO OVERTURN THAT SHIT

McJuicy · 02-25-2008, 11:53 AM

Man abortions rock, end of story, if ya dont like em DONT GET EM, and if you dont like them in your country GTFO. Like if a women has a still birth child thats pretty sad, but not as sad as a 2 year old dying, how sad is a women loosing a 6 week old pile of goo? Not very sad.

Aaron Haynes · 02-25-2008, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Williamson

I think that's a very reasonable argument. if I thought life began at conception I would be with him all the way. no idea why this was jumped on so hard, sheesh.

"If I had the same opinions, this wouldn't seem crazy at all."

To go through every individual insane thing in that post would take me about 20 minutes.

Phil Williamson · 02-25-2008, 08:20 PM

it all follows from his premise (life begins at conception), which I personally disagree with but don't consider utterly unreasonable. if I believed that millions of people were being murdered each year under the protection of law that would certainly be the issue I based my vote on.

Andres · 02-25-2008, 08:58 PM

all single issue voters are scum, and anyone who voted for bush in 2004 deserves to have their nationality revoked

Aaron Haynes · 02-25-2008, 09:18 PM

If I believed the unborn were more important than human beings with a few decades of experience, to the point of being dismissive of the number of deaths in Iraq, I would be nuts. His premise isn't that human life at any stage is equally sacred, it's that the unborn are more important than children or adults. He doesn't care about the economy, health care, or the war when compared to abortion. Once the baby is born, it's completely on its own. I remember that thread, Andres and I were pointing out the shitty quality of life for a lot of kids born into horrible situations, and he had no answer for that.

Oh sure, if you want to play devil's advocate you could argue this position from a purely religious perspective and talk about abstinence and sexual responsibility, i.e. "don't have sex if you can't take care of a baby"...but the kinds of people who believe abortion is exactly the same as murdering a human being at any stage of his life tend to be conservatives, who don't like social programs, don't like health care coverage, are dismissive of poor people, think the free market has too much regulation, question your patriotism if you say the soldiers in Iraq don't get the equipment and armor they need, etc., etc. How do they reconcile these extremes in thought? If life begins at conception and pro-lifers are such moral crusaders as to make sure every pregnancy results in a birth, why don't they show the same care and attention to the social programs that will help that kid have a good life with actual opportunities?

Sure, if he holds the position that "all life is equal in value at every stage, but it's only up to us to give it a chance to be born" then his post is completely consistent, even the part where he says the cumulative number of abortions in this country outweighs the impact of the Holocaust as a simple matter of mathematics. That fits with his worldview, sure, and we can sit here and play these intellectual games with each other, but it's still completely fucking crazy and irresponsible.

(I don't really like abortion all that much, but I understand that contraceptives don't always work, some people may be in love but live in a bad situation already, and certainly it should be available for victims of rape and incest, and federal regulation is the best way to make sure that it's safe and available).

Zaquis · 02-25-2008, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Haynes

Oh sure, if you want to play devil's advocate you could argue this position from a purely religious perspective and talk about abstinence and sexual responsibility, i.e. "don't have sex if you can't take care of a baby"...but the kinds of people who believe abortion is exactly the same as murdering a human being at any stage of his life tend to be conservatives, who don't like social programs, don't like health care coverage, are dismissive of poor people, think the free market has too much regulation, question your patriotism if you say the soldiers in Iraq don't get the equipment and armor they need, etc., etc. How do they reconcile these extremes in thought? If life begins at conception and pro-lifers are such moral crusaders as to make sure every pregnancy results in a birth, why don't they show the same care and attention to the social programs that will help that kid have a good life with actual opportunities?

yeah i love how i have yet to meet someone who is pro-life and actually adopts or takes in foster children

Bobby Swisha · 02-25-2008, 10:39 PM

Wouldn't it be funny if Melrose got his girlfriend pregnant by accident, decided he didn't want it, and ended up convincing her to get an abortion?

Raz · 02-26-2008, 12:57 AM

no.

a miscarriage, that's where the party's at.

Damage Jackal · 02-26-2008, 01:00 AM

yeah good one BR!!!!!!!!!!! how funny would that be you guys!!!!!!!!!!

Raz · 02-26-2008, 01:06 AM

in fact no. how about a meteorite just kills us all.

that'd be pretty funny

Damage Jackal · 02-26-2008, 01:08 AM

seriously though the original thread made me so so angry. i think it was the angriest i can remember being on this forum

Raz · 02-26-2008, 01:11 AM

i just love it because it's like:-

here's my opinion guys, like it or not, i'm the one not advocating murdering children okay?

02-24-2008, 08:50 PM	#1
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	why i am boting for bush I have a feeling this is going to be a huge debate. If I hated everything Bush stood for, except this one particular area, I would still have to vote for Bush. There is one thing that I think is far more important than how a president will effect my social status, or how much my taxes will be raised or lowered, or if I will have to go through a long application process to purchase a firearm, or if gay people can get married, etc. To me, the issue of abortion, single handedly, outweighs all of that. I think it's murder. Some people don't, that's fine. But from my perspective, there have been over 50 million legal murders in the US. That's the holocaust, many times over. The latest CNN poll showed that, for the first time in several years, more Americans are against abortion than those that are for it. I think if Bush gets back in, and we get some good dudes in the judicial branch, abortion can be overturned. In my opinion, that is the best thing that could possibly happen to this country. But many people are more concerned about how the new president will affect their small businesses and finances. If you believe abortion is murder, I don' see how you could vote for Kerry, unless you are more concerned with finances than you are dying children. And I'm sure someone will say, "Well there are lots of soldiers dying at war because of Bush." That's fine, I dont have a problem with that statment... but the numbers are no where close. 50 million compared to... whatever the death toll in Iraq is now. On top of that, Kerry wants me to pay for other peoples abortions. I'm not paying to help murder a child. EDIT: THIS HAS TURNED INTO A DEBATE OVER JOHN KERRYS POLITICS CONCERNING DEABTE, SO TO SAVE YOU SOME TIME, HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS: Ok, how about this Kerry quote, from some NARAL Pro-Choice conference: "I think that tonight we have to make it clear that we are not going to turn back the clock. There is no overturning of Roe v. Wade... There is no outlawing of a procedure necessary to save a woman's life or health and there are no more cutbacks on population control efforts around the world. We need to take on this President and all of the forces of intolerance on this issue. We need to honestly and confidently and candidly take this issue out to the country and we need to speak up and be proud of what we stand for." Population Control? That's pretty extreme. From the Boston Herald on January 23, 2001: "I will not back away from my conviction that international family planning programs are in America's best interests. We should resist pressures in this country for heavy-handed Washington mandates that ignore basic choices that should belong to free people around the globe." Basic choices that should belong to free people around the globe? I can tell you exactly what kerry believes, in short... Abortion sholdn't be a primary option, and should be used as little as possible, HOWEVER, he feels it is the right of every American to make that choice whenever the time comes. So he thinks it's bad, but he thinks everyone can still get one if they want. The result is the same as someone who is pro-abortion. There is really no arguing that this is his standpoint. He has made it very clear many times. He tries gain the favor of both sides by saying that he thinks it should be a last resort (attempt to gain pro-life favor) but everyone should be able to make the choice for themself (attempt to gain pro-choice favor). His personal standpoint on the issue becomes irreleveant if he doesn't legislate it... Which he will not do. It's no different than being pro-choice.
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

02-24-2008, 08:53 PM	#2
Fredrick Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 5,113	I didn't come to the testing forum to read posts this long.
Fredrick Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 5,113

02-24-2008, 08:55 PM	#4
Raz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,485	<3 melrose
Raz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,485

02-24-2008, 09:28 PM	#8
Deano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 9,819	I hated that thread, it shattered my opinion of melrose into a million christian peices. Worst post in this forum's history.
Deano Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 9,819

02-25-2008, 11:53 AM	#14
McJuicy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8,786	Man abortions rock, end of story, if ya dont like em DONT GET EM, and if you dont like them in your country GTFO. Like if a women has a still birth child thats pretty sad, but not as sad as a 2 year old dying, how sad is a women loosing a 6 week old pile of goo? Not very sad.
McJuicy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8,786

02-24-2008, 08:54 PM	#3
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	Melrose from the "Why I am voting for GWB" thread. you changed the title There was the anti-abortion group who visited the campus at UNCA once or twice a semester, and set up these massive displays with pictures of bloody aborted fetuses all over the quad, so everyone could see them on their way to class. The last semester I was there, they moved the whole display to in front of the cafeteria, and accosted anyone who walked by with pamphlets and questions about our thoughts on abortion.

02-24-2008, 08:57 PM	#5
Pirate Balloon Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,911	ahah i love christians

02-24-2008, 08:58 PM	#6
Pizza The Hut Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,633	Hahaha, that is the best post EVER.

02-24-2008, 09:04 PM	#7
Richard Bevis Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 2,190	I've never really thought about abortion, or infact politics for that matter. But I stopped to read that post and found it actually quite chilling.

02-25-2008, 05:36 AM	#9
Bobby Swisha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 46,012	whatever happened to him? did he get married or whatever?

02-25-2008, 05:45 AM	#10
Rabid Dinosaur Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 14,894	Yes, and he's still around sometimes.

02-25-2008, 06:22 AM	#11
Bobby Swisha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 46,012	LOL!! He actually got married! That's kinda unexpected. Good for him though.

02-25-2008, 11:00 AM	#12
Phil Williamson Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 16,900	I think that's a very reasonable argument. if I thought life began at conception I would be with him all the way. no idea why this was jumped on so hard, sheesh.

02-25-2008, 11:23 AM	#13
Crazy Ivan Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 9,462	WE GOTS 10 MORE MONTHS TO OVERTURN THAT SHIT

02-25-2008, 08:20 PM	#16
Phil Williamson Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 16,900	it all follows from his premise (life begins at conception), which I personally disagree with but don't consider utterly unreasonable. if I believed that millions of people were being murdered each year under the protection of law that would certainly be the issue I based my vote on.

02-25-2008, 08:58 PM	#17
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797	all single issue voters are scum, and anyone who voted for bush in 2004 deserves to have their nationality revoked
Andres Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 17,797

02-25-2008, 09:18 PM	#18
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	If I believed the unborn were more important than human beings with a few decades of experience, to the point of being dismissive of the number of deaths in Iraq, I would be nuts. His premise isn't that human life at any stage is equally sacred, it's that the unborn are more important than children or adults. He doesn't care about the economy, health care, or the war when compared to abortion. Once the baby is born, it's completely on its own. I remember that thread, Andres and I were pointing out the shitty quality of life for a lot of kids born into horrible situations, and he had no answer for that. Oh sure, if you want to play devil's advocate you could argue this position from a purely religious perspective and talk about abstinence and sexual responsibility, i.e. "don't have sex if you can't take care of a baby"...but the kinds of people who believe abortion is exactly the same as murdering a human being at any stage of his life tend to be conservatives, who don't like social programs, don't like health care coverage, are dismissive of poor people, think the free market has too much regulation, question your patriotism if you say the soldiers in Iraq don't get the equipment and armor they need, etc., etc. How do they reconcile these extremes in thought? If life begins at conception and pro-lifers are such moral crusaders as to make sure every pregnancy results in a birth, why don't they show the same care and attention to the social programs that will help that kid have a good life with actual opportunities? Sure, if he holds the position that "all life is equal in value at every stage, but it's only up to us to give it a chance to be born" then his post is completely consistent, even the part where he says the cumulative number of abortions in this country outweighs the impact of the Holocaust as a simple matter of mathematics. That fits with his worldview, sure, and we can sit here and play these intellectual games with each other, but it's still completely fucking crazy and irresponsible. (I don't really like abortion all that much, but I understand that contraceptives don't always work, some people may be in love but live in a bad situation already, and certainly it should be available for victims of rape and incest, and federal regulation is the best way to make sure that it's safe and available).

02-25-2008, 10:39 PM	#20
Bobby Swisha Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 46,012	Wouldn't it be funny if Melrose got his girlfriend pregnant by accident, decided he didn't want it, and ended up convincing her to get an abortion?

02-26-2008, 12:57 AM	#21
Raz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,485	no. a miscarriage, that's where the party's at.
Raz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,485

02-26-2008, 01:00 AM	#22
Damage Jackal Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 18,523	yeah good one BR!!!!!!!!!!! how funny would that be you guys!!!!!!!!!!

02-26-2008, 01:06 AM	#23
Raz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,485	in fact no. how about a meteorite just kills us all. that'd be pretty funny
Raz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,485

02-26-2008, 01:08 AM	#24
Damage Jackal Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 18,523	seriously though the original thread made me so so angry. i think it was the angriest i can remember being on this forum

02-26-2008, 01:11 AM	#25
Raz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,485	i just love it because it's like:- here's my opinion guys, like it or not, i'm the one not advocating murdering children okay?
Raz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 10,485