v3dmm with 3dmmFPS

Digital Taco · 04:39 AM

My new PC runs 3dmm at win98 speed (or slower...), so Denny and I figured out how to get this to work one day.

THE PROCESS:

Download 3dmmFPS, extract to some folder.
Move your v3dmm.exe file to that folder, and rename it to 3DMOVIE.EXE. Run the patcher.
Rename the 3DMOVIE-FAST.exe file to v3dmm.exe, and move it back to the v3dmm folder. Move the winvv.dll and 3dmmFPS.dat files to that folder as well.

THE RESULTS:

This will SORT OF work: If you run v3dmmmanager.exe, v3dmm will run at the speed in 3dmmFPS.dat, BUT if you load v3dmm through a .vmm file, it will run at the normal speed.

This confused me for a while, but I figured out what was happening is that v3dmm is looking for a 3dmmFPS.dat in the folder that the .vmm file is in (for some reason!). SO, if you put a 3dmmFPS.dat in the same folder as the movie, it will run at the speed set in that file.

Interesting stuff!

NOTE: A multiplier of 1.1 fixed 3dmm for me, SO if i was running 3dmm at 6.25fps on my old pc, the new one runs it at 5.68fps. That is SLOW D:

Digital Taco · 10-31-2006, 05:04 AM

I would not suggest using this in a movie, but it is nice if you are running at a weird framerate.

Brossy · 10-31-2006, 05:46 AM

Awesome, I'll give this a try tommorrow. Like I said, Magic 2 is stuck until I fix it, so yeaaah.

Destra · 10-31-2006, 05:51 AM

If one were to create a movie at say 25fps with this trick for example, and then distribute that movie with the 3dmmFPS.dat in the same folder the movie is in, wouldn't it be possible for all people with this modification to their v3dmm folder to view said movie at 25fps? Provided they keep it in the folder it comes in of course.

Digital Taco · 10-31-2006, 05:55 AM

Yep. It is a pretty cool system, but again, anyone who has not patched their v3dmm.exe will see the movie as very very slow.

Denny Betterman · 10-31-2006, 06:26 AM

HOWEVER....however.....howEVer....

the 3dmmFPS.dat does not set the FPS. NO. It sets the FPS MULTIPLIER.

You want 25 FPS for your movie, you're running at 6.25 FPS, FINE you set it to 4x multiplier. NOW when you send your movie to someone slow, say, Digital Taco here with his 5.68, he's not going to see the movie at 25 FPS NO! He's going to see it at 22.52 FPS. THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. SO!

If this v3dmmFPS business is going to continue heartily, we will need to discuss methods of making this all work. For one, I highly suggest everyone who makes a movie with v3dmmFPS put the intended FPS in the description for the movie. Further, if there was a way to find out just exactly what FPS your computer runs 3dmm, we'll need to figure that out. And let's not forget to use loading systems in our movies if we do this, too, yeah, like, like, like was done in the Vlarion Remakes, great examples. Have everything get loaded at least once, even if only on the very first frame of your movie, just so that it's all good.

SO YEAH. Make sure you have the default in the v3dmm/system/ folder set to whatever you need to make things normal speed, but you'll need to remember that if you open from a .vmm you would have to have the correctly set 3dmmfps.dat in that folder.

Man, if v3dmm could have a function where it sets the intended FPS itself given off of whatever speed is inserted into it as the default in a configuration window, movies could just say 'use 25 fps' and then you just say 'bitch, use 25 fps' and v3dmm handles the multiplication itself...that'd be great. It'd be better still to have the .vmm file itself be able to tell v3dmm what speed to use, but of course someone would just have to figure how to stick that information into the .vmm file that'll still make it and v3dmmManager compatible with each other and earlier .vmm files and earlier v3dmmManagers....8|

....So anyway yeah, proceed with caution, y'all.

Travis Wells · 11-03-2006, 05:28 PM

You're overwriting a v3dmm API hook, but it still works cause v3dmm doesn't do much with it anyway.

(But don't try this with e3dmm, you'll corrupt the hell out of all your movies)

Demented Ferret · 11-03-2006, 05:38 PM

Nah, e3dmm was excellent, but you can do pretty much anything you could do in e3dmm in v3dmm, providing you know what you're doing. Besides, there are less screwy colour messups that way.

I've known about this 'v3dmm with 3dmmFPS' for a long-time, pretty much since v3dmm was out, however - sloppy methods such as these aren't really in the spirit of v3dmm. This is fine if you're using v3dmm purely for creating and encoding that movie to an AVI, but sharing movies like this is far too sloppy and will probably end up with more trouble than it's worth.

Destra · 11-03-2006, 05:41 PM

The only problem is that after going through the process of creating all the extra colour palette scenes, you still have to change scenes whenever you change the palette. Whereas in e3dmm you could change it whenever the hell you wanted.

Demented Ferret · 11-03-2006, 05:48 PM

True, but even with palette-intensive movies (for example, 'End' a movie that I started a while back and will probably never finish) has a plethora of pallete effects and I've never really felt limited; changing palettes isn't really a normal thing to do mid-scene.

Aaron Haynes · 11-03-2006, 06:24 PM

If you need an effect as complex as shifting an entire palette in mid-scene, it's time to move to a more complex program than 3DMM.

A significantly higher framerate without keyframe support would finally push things over the edge for me as well, but this is still a great discovery. Best for movies that'll be encoded to AVI like Ferret said, or gimmicky fun, though. An epic would be much harder than it already is (and default actions become useless at anything over 8 or 9 fps).

Gorosaurus · 11-03-2006, 08:11 PM

Actually, I remember an argument thread about 4 or 5 years back where the default actions were played at 3dmm framerate vs. 24fps. 24fps won, it looked like they were genuinely designed for it

But non-default defaults, maaaybe

Brossy · 11-05-2006, 10:14 PM

Ok, I havn't done of this yet, but... well, should I just make the rest of the movie synced with the old framerate, and then compile the whole lot in an avi and just speed it up?

Only... yeah then the speed of the music would change and it'd suck. Sound effects wouldn't matter, but yeah I might have to wait and add music later in avi editing.... but fuck, it's such a hassel!!! And I like having music in to preview.

ARGH! Stupid technology not handling an 11 year old program!!!

This pretty much confirms Magic 2 not being finished this year I think. This coupled with a new job, and hopefully moving before christmas... just yeah

Demented Ferret · 11-05-2006, 10:19 PM

Because you won't be able to check if it looks good while you're creating it, really.

Brossy · 11-05-2006, 10:20 PM

Because of all the stuffing around, and all the AVI capturing and speed changing etc.

And like I said, moving out and shit too.

And I need my new Killah model back, it's back on my old computer.

Just the production has gone from being smooth to really really choppy.

Gorosaurus · 11-06-2006, 01:01 AM

I can't fathom how you could have so much work yet to do that it would take the rest of the year to finish, Brad. You've got like 20 minutes done!

Brossy · 11-06-2006, 04:34 AM

Yeah, but it's been in production for over a year now.

I've got really dramatic scenes left. The one I'm up to now I don't even really know what to do...

Then the very end scene, is gonna be massive. I've gotta go all out, because it will most likely be my last big project, so yeah I'd rather quality over time.

Well, I dunno! What's the best solution here?!?!? Keep animating now at slow speed, or try this FPS thing?!

Gorosaurus · 11-06-2006, 04:44 AM

Just keeeeep going

Trust me, the risk of never coming back to the project is too much. Keeeep going

Brossy · 11-06-2006, 05:09 AM

Yeah, but which method? Slow speed, or this FPS thing?

Aaron Haynes · 11-06-2006, 06:27 AM

My vote? Don't use v3dmmFPS. Just animate more than you need in relatively static panning/zooming shots. Upwards of 40-45 frames per. That way, you'll have a rough, unedited version of the scene that you can trim down on a computer that syncs correctly with the rest of your footage, add in sound effects, and sync up music.

Use the music as a guide while animating, but not in a linear way that requires you to watch 40 seconds of animation to hear where a specific point in the song would hit. Just make a note of all the places you need it to sync and stretch out your passive animation scenes (slow pans and zooms across more inactive scenes). Then capture it and chop it up in a video editor while you sync up music.

Brossy · 11-06-2006, 08:25 AM

Problem is, I don't know when I'll get to use my old computer again. Well actually I do, and it'll be after I move out.

So I dunno... it's just incredibly frustrating to have to swap and change like that.

If I do this bit for an AVI release, then I'll do the whole thing like that.

Michael Sandford · 01-04-2007, 08:10 AM

I think this v3dmmfps syncing thing COULD work. if we add a little maths into it.

okay, say I'm running at 6.0 fps and I want to get it to run at 24 fps. so I just times it by 4.

but if I gave my movie to somebody who was running at 6.25 fps, they could divide 24 by 6.25 and find out how much they'd need to multiply there current frame rate to make the movie properly synced.

just a thought

Destra · 01-04-2007, 08:13 AM

The 3dmm framerate is shifty at best. But when you multiply it with 3dmmfps it becomes REALLY unstable. Framerates often change even during a session. So if it has trouble keeping a stable framerate on one machine, how's it going to keep it on everyone else's machines?

BlackMetalMovies · 03-09-2007, 06:07 AM

Arrgghh!
I have a headache!

Digital Taco · 03-09-2007, 07:58 AM

nobody use 3dmmfps for your movies dammit

10-31-2006, 05:03 AM	#1
Digital Taco Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 12,216	v3dmm with 3dmmFPS My new PC runs 3dmm at win98 speed (or slower...), so Denny and I figured out how to get this to work one day. THE PROCESS: Download 3dmmFPS, extract to some folder. Move your v3dmm.exe file to that folder, and rename it to 3DMOVIE.EXE. Run the patcher. Rename the 3DMOVIE-FAST.exe file to v3dmm.exe, and move it back to the v3dmm folder. Move the winvv.dll and 3dmmFPS.dat files to that folder as well. THE RESULTS: This will SORT OF work: If you run v3dmmmanager.exe, v3dmm will run at the speed in 3dmmFPS.dat, BUT if you load v3dmm through a .vmm file, it will run at the normal speed. This confused me for a while, but I figured out what was happening is that v3dmm is looking for a 3dmmFPS.dat in the folder that the .vmm file is in (for some reason!). SO, if you put a 3dmmFPS.dat in the same folder as the movie, it will run at the speed set in that file. Interesting stuff! NOTE: A multiplier of 1.1 fixed 3dmm for me, SO if i was running 3dmm at 6.25fps on my old pc, the new one runs it at 5.68fps. That is SLOW D:
	Last edited by Aaron Haynes : 01-30-2008 at 04:39 AM.

10-31-2006, 05:46 AM	#3
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376	Awesome, I'll give this a try tommorrow. Like I said, Magic 2 is stuck until I fix it, so yeaaah.
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376

10-31-2006, 05:51 AM	#4
Destra Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,594	If one were to create a movie at say 25fps with this trick for example, and then distribute that movie with the 3dmmFPS.dat in the same folder the movie is in, wouldn't it be possible for all people with this modification to their v3dmm folder to view said movie at 25fps? Provided they keep it in the folder it comes in of course.
Destra Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,594

11-03-2006, 05:41 PM	#9
Destra Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,594	The only problem is that after going through the process of creating all the extra colour palette scenes, you still have to change scenes whenever you change the palette. Whereas in e3dmm you could change it whenever the hell you wanted.
Destra Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,594

11-05-2006, 10:14 PM	#13
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376	Ok, I havn't done of this yet, but... well, should I just make the rest of the movie synced with the old framerate, and then compile the whole lot in an avi and just speed it up? Only... yeah then the speed of the music would change and it'd suck. Sound effects wouldn't matter, but yeah I might have to wait and add music later in avi editing.... but fuck, it's such a hassel!!! And I like having music in to preview. ARGH! Stupid technology not handling an 11 year old program!!! This pretty much confirms Magic 2 not being finished this year I think. This coupled with a new job, and hopefully moving before christmas... just yeah
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376

10-31-2006, 05:04 AM	#2
Digital Taco Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 12,216	I would not suggest using this in a movie, but it is nice if you are running at a weird framerate.

10-31-2006, 05:55 AM	#5
Digital Taco Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 12,216	Yep. It is a pretty cool system, but again, anyone who has not patched their v3dmm.exe will see the movie as very very slow.

10-31-2006, 06:26 AM	#6
Denny Betterman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,531	HOWEVER....however.....howEVer.... the 3dmmFPS.dat does not set the FPS. NO. It sets the FPS MULTIPLIER. You want 25 FPS for your movie, you're running at 6.25 FPS, FINE you set it to 4x multiplier. NOW when you send your movie to someone slow, say, Digital Taco here with his 5.68, he's not going to see the movie at 25 FPS NO! He's going to see it at 22.52 FPS. THAT'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE. SO! If this v3dmmFPS business is going to continue heartily, we will need to discuss methods of making this all work. For one, I highly suggest everyone who makes a movie with v3dmmFPS put the intended FPS in the description for the movie. Further, if there was a way to find out just exactly what FPS your computer runs 3dmm, we'll need to figure that out. And let's not forget to use loading systems in our movies if we do this, too, yeah, like, like, like was done in the Vlarion Remakes, great examples. Have everything get loaded at least once, even if only on the very first frame of your movie, just so that it's all good. SO YEAH. Make sure you have the default in the v3dmm/system/ folder set to whatever you need to make things normal speed, but you'll need to remember that if you open from a .vmm you would have to have the correctly set 3dmmfps.dat in that folder. Man, if v3dmm could have a function where it sets the intended FPS itself given off of whatever speed is inserted into it as the default in a configuration window, movies could just say 'use 25 fps' and then you just say 'bitch, use 25 fps' and v3dmm handles the multiplication itself...that'd be great. It'd be better still to have the .vmm file itself be able to tell v3dmm what speed to use, but of course someone would just have to figure how to stick that information into the .vmm file that'll still make it and v3dmmManager compatible with each other and earlier .vmm files and earlier v3dmmManagers....8\| ....So anyway yeah, proceed with caution, y'all.

11-03-2006, 05:28 PM	#7
Travis Wells Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 11,147	You're overwriting a v3dmm API hook, but it still works cause v3dmm doesn't do much with it anyway. (But don't try this with e3dmm, you'll corrupt the hell out of all your movies)

11-03-2006, 05:38 PM	#8
Demented Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 16,248	Nah, e3dmm was excellent, but you can do pretty much anything you could do in e3dmm in v3dmm, providing you know what you're doing. Besides, there are less screwy colour messups that way. I've known about this 'v3dmm with 3dmmFPS' for a long-time, pretty much since v3dmm was out, however - sloppy methods such as these aren't really in the spirit of v3dmm. This is fine if you're using v3dmm purely for creating and encoding that movie to an AVI, but sharing movies like this is far too sloppy and will probably end up with more trouble than it's worth.

11-03-2006, 05:48 PM	#10
Demented Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 16,248	True, but even with palette-intensive movies (for example, 'End' a movie that I started a while back and will probably never finish) has a plethora of pallete effects and I've never really felt limited; changing palettes isn't really a normal thing to do mid-scene.

11-03-2006, 06:24 PM	#11
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	If you need an effect as complex as shifting an entire palette in mid-scene, it's time to move to a more complex program than 3DMM. A significantly higher framerate without keyframe support would finally push things over the edge for me as well, but this is still a great discovery. Best for movies that'll be encoded to AVI like Ferret said, or gimmicky fun, though. An epic would be much harder than it already is (and default actions become useless at anything over 8 or 9 fps).

11-03-2006, 08:11 PM	#12
Gorosaurus Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 16,146	Actually, I remember an argument thread about 4 or 5 years back where the default actions were played at 3dmm framerate vs. 24fps. 24fps won, it looked like they were genuinely designed for it But non-default defaults, maaaybe

11-05-2006, 10:19 PM	#14
Demented Ferret Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 16,248	Because you won't be able to check if it looks good while you're creating it, really.

11-05-2006, 10:20 PM	#15
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376	Because of all the stuffing around, and all the AVI capturing and speed changing etc. And like I said, moving out and shit too. And I need my new Killah model back, it's back on my old computer. Just the production has gone from being smooth to really really choppy.
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376

11-06-2006, 01:01 AM	#16
Gorosaurus Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 16,146	I can't fathom how you could have so much work yet to do that it would take the rest of the year to finish, Brad. You've got like 20 minutes done!

11-06-2006, 04:34 AM	#17
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376	Yeah, but it's been in production for over a year now. I've got really dramatic scenes left. The one I'm up to now I don't even really know what to do... Then the very end scene, is gonna be massive. I've gotta go all out, because it will most likely be my last big project, so yeah I'd rather quality over time. Well, I dunno! What's the best solution here?!?!? Keep animating now at slow speed, or try this FPS thing?!
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376

11-06-2006, 04:44 AM	#18
Gorosaurus Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 16,146	Just keeeeep going Trust me, the risk of never coming back to the project is too much. Keeeep going

11-06-2006, 05:09 AM	#19
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376	Yeah, but which method? Slow speed, or this FPS thing?
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376

11-06-2006, 06:27 AM	#20
Aaron Haynes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 15,125	My vote? Don't use v3dmmFPS. Just animate more than you need in relatively static panning/zooming shots. Upwards of 40-45 frames per. That way, you'll have a rough, unedited version of the scene that you can trim down on a computer that syncs correctly with the rest of your footage, add in sound effects, and sync up music. Use the music as a guide while animating, but not in a linear way that requires you to watch 40 seconds of animation to hear where a specific point in the song would hit. Just make a note of all the places you need it to sync and stretch out your passive animation scenes (slow pans and zooms across more inactive scenes). Then capture it and chop it up in a video editor while you sync up music.

11-06-2006, 08:25 AM	#21
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376	Problem is, I don't know when I'll get to use my old computer again. Well actually I do, and it'll be after I move out. So I dunno... it's just incredibly frustrating to have to swap and change like that. If I do this bit for an AVI release, then I'll do the whole thing like that.
Brossy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,376

01-04-2007, 08:10 AM	#22
Michael Sandford Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 919	I think this v3dmmfps syncing thing COULD work. if we add a little maths into it. okay, say I'm running at 6.0 fps and I want to get it to run at 24 fps. so I just times it by 4. but if I gave my movie to somebody who was running at 6.25 fps, they could divide 24 by 6.25 and find out how much they'd need to multiply there current frame rate to make the movie properly synced. just a thought
Michael Sandford Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 919

01-04-2007, 08:13 AM	#23
Destra Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,594	The 3dmm framerate is shifty at best. But when you multiply it with 3dmmfps it becomes REALLY unstable. Framerates often change even during a session. So if it has trouble keeping a stable framerate on one machine, how's it going to keep it on everyone else's machines?
Destra Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,594

03-09-2007, 06:07 AM	#24
BlackMetalMovies Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 358	Arrgghh! I have a headache!

03-09-2007, 07:58 AM	#25
Digital Taco Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 12,216	nobody use 3dmmfps for your movies dammit