Windows 2000/XP 3dmm playback issue

[Will Maltby]

I just thought I'd formally post my lil article on this problem:


Windows XP playback issue


Having been using Microsoft's latest Operating System (Windows XP) for the last month, I've come to notice a crucial problem when playing back 3d movies.

As I've previously calculated, 3D Movie Maker's frame rate when using Windows 95/98/ME is almost exactly 6 fps (frames per second). However, upon watching a few movies in XP, I noticed that sounds weren't syncing properly. Further investigation lead me to realise that XP was actually playing the movies faster than with Windows 95/98/ME.

I created a 700 frame long movie which was just a blank screen, and then timed how long it took to play. The time was 106 seconds. So you do the math and you get a frame rate of 6.6 fps.

This means Windows XP plays movies 10% faster then Windows 95/98/ME.

That's quite a difference and is more than enough to fuck up sound syncronisation in all movies. Let me just put it in real terms. If you were watching say DD in XP, you'd finish watching it after 18 minutes, as opposed to 20 minutes if you were watching on Windows 95/98/ME. That's 2 minutes difference !!!


So how can this be solved ?

Answer: It can't. However, what you will see me doing in the future is releasing 2 versions of all my movies. One for Windows XP and another for Windows 95/98/ME systems. The two versions will be different in that the XP version will be slightly longer so as to cancel out XP's faster playing speed.

The first movie you'll see this with will be my upcoming "Cataclymsic Contentment Preview".

I am also assuming that, since XP is basically Windows 2000 with knobs on, Windows 2000 will have the same problem when playing back movies.

As time goes on, and more people starting using Windows XP, this is going to be an increasingly big issue. I will soon start mentioning in 3dmm.co.uk's reviews what platform the movie was created on, since it will tell people in advance whether or not to expect playback issues.


So to conclude: Anyone who likes to perfect the playback of their movies and likes to do a lot of sound syncing will have to seriously consider this problem. And to solve it they will HAVE to release two versions of their movies.


I just thought I'd bring this to everyone's attention, because in a year from now, we'll start hearing people saying stuff like "Uhh, such and such movie's sounds aren't synced properly, how lame".

It's a shame really, because with current low prices for PC hardware, we were just getting away from playback issues relating to people using old slow computers.

[Nice Guy Nick]

I take it that is why the cc preview is taking ages.

[Will Maltby]

possibly the biggest problem for everyone is if they send their movie to me having made it on Windows 95/98/ME and I watch/review it on my Windows XP system.

It'll play too fast on my computer and all the sound syncing will be lost.

voices are quite likely to overlap as well.

This has happened alot in movies I've watched recently.

[Will Cheyney]

Solution: don't get XP.

*wide eyes*

Genius.....

*points at maltby*

[Will Cheyney]

No Nick. Will has said that the reason the preview hasn't been released, is that he hasn't added minor details.

[Will Maltby]

Well actually no it isn't Nick.

I had to go home specially the other week to get on my brother's computer to fix my CC preview for the Windows 98 version.

Even though the preview isn't finished, I have the scene lengths sorted so I know how to cut it for the 2 different Operating systems.

My brother has since installed XP himself so that's the last time I can actually do that.

But CC won't be out for a long while yet so I don't have to worry about it for a bit.

[Nice Guy Nick]

yeah wait a few years for a faster version but watch 3dmm movies on an older version

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by Will Cheyney
Solution: don't get XP.

Exactly. Because Macs are better.

[Will Maltby]

Windows XP fucking ownz though.

It makes you realise what abig heaving piece of shit 95/98/ME are when you use it.

Seriously, it's wonderful and there's no way in hell I'd go back.

*boots cheyney*

hows that for a solution....?

biatch

[Prof Spaz]

this topic really sums up how old movie maker is and how desperatly a patch is need

travis could you make a wee proggy to sync o/s versions?

Open loads and load of programs to slow your computer down !

[Evan]

I just got XP and it rocks!! SO anyways I sat down to watch MOS 2 preview and damn! I saw the diffrence cause it ran shite on my cmputer 'specially with windows 98/me and now it looks better...So I am happy...

[Thrik]

Xp is really, really good.
Sexy, too. I'll prolly only download Will's movies now, unless other directors can be arsed to make 2 versions :]

I hate Windows XP.
I got me a pirated version and installed it on my old computer. (I usually use my new one)
Now, it looks really neat and nice and I liked it at first.
But then I realized that it deleted half of my fucking games!!!
All those hours spent on Diablo II...
All my Sim families which I loved so much...
Gone. Forever.
*gets teary in the eyes*
Now, if this wasn't bad enough already, the games it DIDN'T delete (like 3dmm, thanks god. At least I got to keep my chain movie) don't work on that PC anymore.
They give me errors.
My Castle Wolfenstain demo doesn't work on it anymore.
FUCK FUCK FUCK.
About the only thing that works is a Max Payne demo.
Argh.
So, yeah.
I'm not happy with it.

Originally posted by Tom Simpson
Open loads and load of programs to slow your computer down !

That's not such a bad idea, actually.
Hey, maybe out friend Travis can make an application to slow 3dmm down, and XP users can use that?

thats cos pirates made your version, they are dumb.... mwhahahahahaha
bwahahahaaa

[Xclexski]

Xclexski's Kick Ass Idea

My friend wants XP, so I'm going to download it and put it on a disc, and MAKE HIM PAY FOR IT!!!!!!! HAHAHA ROFFEL. Then when he installs it, I'll go over his house and try it out and see if it is good or shit!!!!!!! MEH=GENIUESE!!!!!!!!!!

[Ultralisk]

BR, I feel the same thing as you...

all wars and battles in StarCraft....

all the money spent...

all deaths of the war...

all asses kicked...

EVERYTHING LOST FOR CHANGING MY FUCKING HARD DRIVE!!!!

[Will B-R]

Let's hope there is a fix :)

duz this not apply to windows me?

[Will B-R]

probably not windows me was just a cheap rip off of winxp and win98.

[Will Cheyney]

Originally posted by Xclexski

Exactly. Because Macs are better.
Xclsexy - you are now a GOD

[Scatterbrain]

........

[Will B-R]

what?

[Will Maltby]

< BUMP (for all the Americans who missed it due to stupid fuckers spamming the BB with pointless 'annoying-to-read' shit >

[Travis Wells]

hmm. I don't have XP yet, but it's probably something in the API. That means there is NO way to fix it. Microsoft could fix it, but i doubt they will. there's a chance this effects more than 3dmm, then they might fix it.

This could also spell the end of 3dmm, as more and more software moves to be XP-only how many people can have 2 pcs, one with XP and one with 9x/Me?

[Travis Wells]

Or at least the end of many old movies. New movie should be ok once everything moves to XP.

[Evan]

Oh well....And it better not mean the end! 3DMM 4 LIFE!

[Will Maltby]

I'm gunna have to release XP versions of my movies too.

DD, BB vig, I know episodes


i won't until xp becomes more popular though...

[Evan]

Will are you going to like have tutorial on how to do it?

[Matt McGowan]

yeah, for all us stupid americans who are too much of sloths to figure it out on our own

[Kieran McIlwain]

Finally some people who agree that XP kicks ass!

Maltby, the visual styles have been cracked!

You can now download themes which change EVERYTHING.

www.themeXP.org

[Dick Harris]

I like XP. But then, I had '95 last month.... ah...fast movies...

[Will Cheyney]

I love '95!

[Don Tickner]

I thought I noticed something as well, good pointing that out will.
As I usually watch old 3dmm movies for inspiration (i love litterbug 2 and zombie hunters) i noticed that XP seems to make 3dmm run alittle better.
Also, it also does the same with Half-Life, and Diablo 2 and The Sims. Seems microsoft have added a few extra features (i've never used 2000 so I may be wrong here) to XP to make it take full advantage of a users system.

As for XP not supporting many games, I have no idea what everyone is talking about.
Everything from 3dmm, Hitman - CodeName 47, Diablo 2, Diablo 2: Lord Of Destruction, Imperium Galactica 2, The Sims and Creatures Docking Station to Creatures 1, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament and Half-Life all work and run alot better. I love XP. And since to seems to be uncrashable... I love it.

BUT - as for 3dmming, as will pointed out, We'll have to make XP versions. Which means makeing things slower or faster depending on the operateing System.
The Kung-Fu-Fighting segement in Snoopy runs alittle better, as the increased frame rate (i think it might be alittle more than 10% though...) goes well with melee combat. BUT the mission:impossible 2 motor bike scene send up runs alittle off sound, which is a bitch cause it took 6 weeks to do.
Anyway, looks like I'll have to put in a few more house to get it going right...
or people with anything under XP could just lower the 3DMM settings to FAST SPEED (or whatever it is) instead of higher quality visuals... whatevers good for you...

[Kieran McIlwain]

Deus Ex is down and out.

[BAN]

And to solve it they will HAVE to release two versions of their movies.

no, YOU will HAVE to release two versions

i can't be arsed

[Andres]

I *might* update some of my movies, but DON'T count on simultaneous releases for both XP and 98. I'll probably just release normal versions, and MAYBE i'll release an XP version IF the movie has a high demand, and only after a month or so. If it's just a short little movie, NO. BIG FLAMING NO.

[Timo]

This works out pretty well for people with old, slow computers. On my pc some movies run with the sound out of sync because of high poly counts. But xp versions would have longer scenes, so the faster sound would mean that crap computers could watch high poly movies with better sound syncing. Think about it.
How does this effect macs though?

[Will B-R]

Can't you just run 2 op systems? I used to do that with Linux.

[Timo]

Can you imagine using xp for fast internet access to download a movie, then restart every time you wanted to watch it? An then if you wanted to watch a different version you would have to restart again!

[Xclexski]

Wha?

[Will Cheyney]

It wouldn't really be that much of a chore

[Timo]

your just saying that cos you have a mac. wish I had a an imac....

[Will Cheyney]

:D I have a Titanium PowerBook G4
http://www.apple.com/powerbook

[Dick Harris]

Oh for fuck's sake. Stop going on about your Macs.

[Gray Fox]

Is that the mac that has 'gigaflops' or whatever it is called

hmm, now that i think about it, 2000 does run movies a bit faster. i have it. i remember watching DD, and seeing that Will had a better computer than me, and thinking that the sounds would be out of sync because the animation would go too slow. turns out, the animation went a bit faster. yeah. just... yeah.... so will's right.

[Don Tickner]

Fuck it.
I can't be stuffed changeing snoopy again.
If you people dn't have XP, download it from one of a million warez sites or buy it.
I'm not makeing 2 versions.

As for the whole Duel Boot, so u have windows 98 and XP, why would you want to?
Kinda removed the whole point of buying ANOTHER OPERATING SYSTEM IF YOUR GOING TO USE WINDOWS 9x DOESNT IT!?

[Adam Clough]

Whoa hang on a sec...
Will does this boost in speed increase the frame rate of a movie or does it increase the load between scenes

If its just a scene transition thing then audio syncing wont be a problem...
But if it is a FRAME RATE INCREASE then that would seriosly fuck up most of my movies. Please tell me it isn't so!

[Evan]

Hello, there is other people here besides will.

[Adam Clough]

Hey whad up Evan (and yeah theres heaps more where I came from)

Do y' know the answer to my question?

[Brossy]

Yeah, cant ya just install 95 or 98, which is only about 200mb if it's just windows, and boot into that to use 3dmm?

I think that's the easiest solution... but I spose that means a reset everytime ya wanna work on 3dmm

[Adam Clough]

Hey thats a pretty good idea Brossy, doubt it would work though

And as you can see now Brad I can post thanks for your lack of help! Its because I'm choca isn't it!

(j.k I forgive y'mate)

[Adam Clough]

So yeah..
Can anyone give me an answer here 'cause I'm definately not geting XP at all so this is a big deal for me.

Frame rate increase

or

Faster scene transition

talk to me people!

[Brossy]

Were you that guy that e-mailed me at my hotmail address?

SORRY! I was gonna respond to you!!! I seriously was, I even told matt ford about it! "I'm gonna do my good deed for today when I get home. Some guy e-mailed me asking for help on the bulletin board, so I'm gonna help him". And I never got around to it!!! I never use that e-mail account, I only ever check it when MSN tells me I got mail. So yeah, SORRY!

And why wouldnt the 95/98 idea work? You'd only have to press F8 as your computer is starting up, and start 95/98 from DOS.

And seriously, I know fuckall really when it comes to real technical stuff, but even I could figure that out.

[Adam Clough]

Thats alright Brad
I'm still having some problems loging in so I can reply, but I'm managing a little bit better now thanks. There has been some other scerwy stuff going on with users loging in as well, but I think Goat has the situation under control a bit now.

Oh and what you said does work too! I put on my old windows 95 on my computer and I can choosebetween 98 & 95 whenever I restart. Though whether thats the same for XP & 98 I don't know. I'd realy just want to make sure people see my movies as they were ment to be seen.
(ugh overlapping voices!?!*flinches*)

[Brossy]

Never thought of that... yeah, might come with an option to log to either... but yeah, I'd do it from dos.

Well, looks like we may have an easy solution!

[Adam Clough]

Well dos is were I could do it
It was pure luck that I happend to have a 95 CD handy 'cause I'm at TAFE right now.

So yeah, how about that!

[Will Cheyney]

Yes - my Mac does do gigaflops. A billion floating calculations per second :D

[Will Maltby]

you can setup a dual boot, I did it before.

However, you have to install Win 95/98/ME first before installing either NT/2000/XP.

If you've made the movie first in xp, then it's quite easy to make a win98 version provided you have another computer to do it on.

If you've made the movie in 98, then converting it to XP involves ADDING frames, and if you've made all your scenes animated (liek I do) then you simply can't add extra frames cos of the way you copy and paste the moving polygons.

[Sinarach]

Shut up Will Maltby !

*Kicks a ball to his head*

[Will Maltby]

well if you've made something in 98 Pikios, I wouldn't worry 'cos I'd say only abut 1-2% of the people on this board have XP.

[Shaun]

I've got Xp! Yeah.... The Two Percent of the board have it, Great! I'm stuck with Maltby. MMM....Malt....

[Crazy Ivan]

OMG! At first I was reading this wondering why the hell it was archived, and then I realized that it's the first appearance of Adam Clough! SWEET!