Creation or Evolution

[Tennessee Redbird]

What do you believe in. Evolution (which is a load of crap)
or creation(Which I believe in.

[BrimmZERO]

Well, I think that God created everything, but after time, they started to change. Dogs are living evidence that all beings evolve

[Tennessee Redbird]

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the Earth."
Genises 1:1.


God created everything. But dif dogs and stuff were bred. You get muts and junk. But God created everything.

[Whitey]

Actually, I created everything.

[Soulflare]

Man enough of this religious topics save them for temple

[Tennessee Redbird]

This is for your own good.

[James Burgon]

God is not real.
Buddha is not real
Allah is not real.
Jesus is not real.
Vishnu is not real.

SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT THIS RELIGIOUS SHIT.

[Tennessee Redbird]

God is Real, Jesus is real, Holy Spirit is real. They are one. Read the Bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go to Church!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[James Burgon]

I'd rather burn it, you dumbshit.
Go to church? Fuck off.

[Andres]

Believing the bible as an accurate depiction of creation is being SILLY. You should know that a book translated from a then dead language by people with few qualifications to do so is gonna be heavily inaccurate. Evolution DID happen, DOES happen, and there's tons and tons of proof of it. you can be foolish and not believe it, or you can be a sheep and do so.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Owtzain, you have probably chosen your fate. Good luck. I'll ask God where you are when I'm in heaven, having the best tome ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Scatterbrain]

GO TO CHURCH!!!


No.


My Brother, on his last day of school, wants to chuck a burning bible through the R.E. teachers window. :lol

[Tennessee Redbird]

there is more proof that evelution is not real!

[Andres]

No, no there isn't. All that "proof" given by religious people is nothing but a bunch of random garbage that doesn't even fully comply with the definition of evolution AND that uses the bible as an example too.


Yeah, sure, dude. Earth is 5000 years old. Women came out of a rib. Sure.

Go. Find me some hard-hitting proof that evolution is not real and then you can speakl.

[Rogerceleb]

evolution is real, nuff said.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Andres De La Hoz
No, no there isn't. All that "proof" given by religious people is nothing but a bunch of random garbage that doesn't even fully comply with the definition of evolution AND that uses the bible as an example too.


Yeah, sure, dude. Earth is 5000 years old. Women came out of a rib. Sure.

Go. Find me some hard-hitting proof that evolution is not real and then you can speakl.



hello, I am speaking.

[Jorrit Stuifmeel]

didnt we just had three more of these topics?

[Tennessee Redbird]

???????????

[James Burgon]

Tennessee Redbird should be banned.
He/She's like a fucking Jehovah Witness

[Jorrit Stuifmeel]

those are the worst

[Gray Fox]

if god created heavan and earth
WHO CREATED GOD?!!?!?!

[Flounder]

Who gives a FUCK? honestly, maybe we should just enjoy and appreciate being here to the fullest, rather than anylize why.

[Jon]

Originally posted by Owtzain

Jesus is not real.


actually, jesus was a real person, it only depends if you believe him to be more than just a human being. That's what mainly seperates jews and christians.

[Flounder]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
Owtzain, you have probably chosen your fate. Good luck. I'll ask God where you are when I'm in heaven, having the best tome ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!


congratulations, if i've ever had ANY respect for you whatsoever, it is now gone. FUCK OFF GOD BOY!

[Jon]

THIS IS BULLSHIT! Christians CAN'T prove that god exist and non-belivers CAN'T prove that he doesn't exists. These arguments will go nowhere so just give it up.

[Flounder]

Originally posted by jon
THIS IS BULLSHIT! Christians CAN'T prove that god exist and non-belivers CAN'T prove that he doesn't exists. These arguments will go nowhere so just give it up.

that's very true, we're just runing in circles here folks.

[Klown]

I think Mr Redbird here runs that site www.Christiananswers.net

[Raz]

Tennessee Redbird really needs to stop preaching his shit. Its okay to believe in what you want but you are a facist bastard

[Josh Byrd]

Cant we all just get along?

[Klown]

EDIT: Image no work

[Tennessee Redbird]

All I wanted to know is what you believed. I didn't mean to start this.

[Xclexski]

You did start it, retard.

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
What do you believe in. Evolution (which is a load of crap)
or creation(Which I believe in.

You said that evolution was crap.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Yes I did. So what?

[Klown]

Thus another shitty thread bursts into flame

[Gorosaurus]

It's real simple:

God made the act and thought of creation, as to say that there was no such thing as "creating" before that. Let that spin around your heads for a while, come up with a good comeback, and I'll have my secretary put you on hold.

Oh, and there is no denying that Jesus existed. Records aren't a twentyith century thing.

The least you guys could do for Mr. Redbird here is respect him for continuing against 90% of your people here. At least I've come to accept that you're not gonna' really change anyone by sitting on a computer chair, posting on a teenager bulletin board. I will not continue this any further. Now let's hear 'em, what smart-alec comebacks and whatnots do you have up next?

As Weird Al once sang, "I'll be laughing my head off when you're burning in heck"


-HANG LOOSE-

[Gray Fox]

redbird

answer my question!

[Xclexski]

Watch him answer this one:

Redbird, how do you know your religion is the correct one out of the many that exist?

[Klown]

Originally posted by Gorosaurus
Oh, and there is no denying that Jesus existed.

I want some 'Undenyable' proof please, NOT THE BIBLE

[BrimmZERO]

Originally posted by Xclexski
Watch him answer this one:

Redbird, how do you know your religion is the correct one out of the many that exist?

I you've read some other religions, you'll find many of them are closely related.

Like:
Christianity
Jewish
Muslim
and Buddhism

Those 4 are very closely related, therefore they may all be correct religions

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Xclexski
Watch him answer this one:

Redbird, how do you know your religion is the correct one out of the many that exist?


Easy. I follow everything in the Bible. The Bible is real. And I thought that I said I'm done. i believe what I believe.

[BrimmZERO]

Which to us is correct, maybe not to you, but to us

[Gray Fox]

Originally posted by Gray Fox
if god created heavan and earth
WHO CREATED GOD?!!?!?!

please answer this question Tennessee Redbird

[Tennessee Redbird]

So leave me and Brim alone.

[BrimmZERO]

Originally posted by Gray Fox


please answer this question Tennessee Redbird

Well if you were good, you'd go to heaven and ask him when you die.

[Gorosaurus]

Originally posted by Crappy Klown


I want some 'Undenyable' proof please, NOT THE BIBLE

Oh my goodnes...... I can't believe you actually just said that.... The school system these days must be worse than I thought!

Ever heard of a guy by the name of, say, Julius Caesar? Yeah, well, he made this little Eincy-Weency law that said that all people under Roman rule must be recorded in the census. That's just a big, 2-syllable word that means someone has to have their existance recorded.

Religious artifacts, other records, the Bible, and supernatural happenings are just extra topping on the cake

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by Gray Fox


please answer this question Tennessee Redbird

He can't answer it. Stop confusing the child.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Gray Fox


please answer this question Tennessee Redbird


That actually is my "ONLY" doubt about God. Other than that 100 percent.

[Sammy Sagitarius]

Originally posted by jon
THIS IS BULLSHIT! Christians CAN'T prove that god exist and non-belivers CAN'T prove that he doesn't exists. These arguments will go nowhere so just give it up.

Which is why I'm agnostic, one who believes the existence of a higher being can not proven wrong or right. Therefore, I believe in the nothingness (which i firmly believe to be true...)

~~~

As for evolution, the fact that there is now a new type of strep-throat bacteria, immune to the regular strep-throat anti-biotics, proves that evolution does happen, all around us. A bacteria has changed into a stronger bacteria.
(bold = Info courtsey ABC-news25; Owensboro, KY)

Evolution is about survival. Survival of the Fittest, or Natural Selection, means that weaker things die off. Therefore, in order to survive, things must become stronger. This can't happen in one generation, it happens in many hundreds and thousands, Because a bacteria can divide hundreds of thousands of times in one year alone, we are able to see the evolution in a way that's not really possible in humans, as our life cycles would have us dead many thousands of years before a noticable change occured.

[Tennessee Redbird]

ok if you believe in God and follow him say "I"

[Lord Blazer]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird



Easy. I follow everything in the Bible. The Bible is real. And I thought that I said I'm done. i believe what I believe.

well what about the quran and the torrah (sp?)

[BrimmZERO]

I

[Tennessee Redbird]

Jews don't believe God walked on earth. But I believe the Bible and not the other thing.

[Sammy Sagitarius]

Koran... is the right spelling.

And yes, Redbird, are you truly arrogant enough to believe your book is right and none of the others are? And what about Christian Denominations? Some more extreme babtists believe if you haven't had your fucking head soaked in water (baptized) you'll still go to hell... many people are racist towards Jews, but JESUS was a JEW... many people are against Mormans (i'm with 'em on that one... Donnie & Marie Osmand... eww)... are there better divisions of Christianity? are there better religions? and who are you to decide? Leave it to your God.

The Osmands thing was just a joke

[Tennessee Redbird]

I haven't studied into the Jews yet. I know he was a jew.

[Lord Blazer]

well then you just contradicted youself!!

when presented with 'how do you know youve chosen the right religon?' you responded with i beleive the bible. and said that that is the correct one.

well what about all the other religons?
you think that they are just false?
they could say the same thing about christianity!

[Lord Blazer]

its spelled kuran?

we just finished africa in social studies and every time it said quran....

[BrimmZERO]

The Bible is right, because all the others are too, just distorted from the original, maybe the bible is a bit too. But see, in Muslim religion, the same angel that came to mary came to Muhammed the Disciple, and thats how Muslim religion started-the angel told him to go and preach the word of God, just Mohammed did it a bit differently than christians did

[Tennessee Redbird]

There are dif. types of religions that are very close. The only thing that';s dif. in them are that jesus is coming again, rapture, or hasn't come yet.

[BrimmZERO]

Yep thats right! He's coming...and if yu guys don't start following now...POFF!@!!!

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Lord Blazer
its spelled kuran?

we just finished africa in social studies and every time it said quran....


quran is what ours said. but it didn't go deep into what it was. they just mentioned it.

[Owen]

I wuldnt know wot shit to believe... how did anything/anyone/everything/someone/something ever get created? It remains a bone of scientific contention :P

[James Burgon]

actually, its...

Qu'ran

[Lord Blazer]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
The only thing that';s dif. in them are that jesus is coming again, rapture, or hasn't come yet.
wtf are you talking about?
theres huge differences!
islam has multiple gods, they have to wear loose clothes, cover most of their bodies, balblabla

thats not covered in 'The only thing that';s dif. in them are that jesus is coming again, rapture, or hasn't come yet.' now is it?

[Gorosaurus]

I

[Tennessee Redbird]

well I believe creation is real. And biblical things prove that evelution is wrong.

[Ramza Brave]

Damn, I am tired of all these fucking religious topics. Believe what you want to fucking believe and keep it to yourself. Nobody else gives a fuck.

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by BrimmZERO
The Bible is right, because all the others are too, just distorted from the original, maybe the bible is a bit too.

No. None are 'right'. You can't prove it.

[Lord Blazer]

and now we're back to where we started. neither can be proven!!!

and the bible cant disprove jack shit! you can see evolution occuring all the time!

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Lord Blazer

wtf are you talking about?
theres huge differences!
islam has multiple gods, they have to wear loose clothes, cover most of their bodies, balblabla

thats not covered in 'The only thing that';s dif. in them are that jesus is coming again, rapture, or hasn't come yet.' now is it?


but everything is just slightly. I was brought up with Seventh Day Adventism. Who knows, maybe things are wrong in them. Only time will tell.

[BrimmZERO]

Originally posted by Xclexski


No. None are 'right'. You can't prove it.

I cant prove it. Thats what I believe, thats all.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Ramza Brave
Damn, I am tired of all these fucking religious topics. Believe what you want to fucking believe and keep it to yourself. Nobody else gives a fuck.


some people do.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by BrimmZERO
I cant prove it. Thats what I believe, thats all.


exactly!

[Ramza Brave]

No they don't. Shut the fuck up, you worthless piece of shit.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Lord Blazer
and now we're back to where we started. neither can be proven!!!

and the bible cant disprove jack shit! you can see evolution occuring all the time!


I'm talking about the Flood.

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
well I believe creation is real. And biblical things prove that evelution is wrong.

HAHAh. First, no one is going to take your opinions on evolution seriously because you're too stupid to spell it. How can the bible prove evolution wrong? It's impossible. The bible was written before the theory of evolution even existed.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Ramza Brave
No they don't. Shut the fuck up, you worthless piece of shit.

If you don't like it leave!

[Lord Blazer]

The only thing that';s dif. in them are that jesus is coming again, rapture, or hasn't come yet.

Only- ADJECTIVE
1. Alone in kind or class; sole: "an only child; the only one left." 2. Standing alone by reason of superiority or excellence.


but everything is just slightly.
everything means multiple.
and i dont think that 'one god-multiple gods' is a minor difference

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Xclexski


HAHAh. First, no one is going to take your opinions on evolution seriously because you're too stupid to spell it. How can the bible prove evolution wrong? It's impossible. The bible was written before the theory of evolution even existed.



THE FLOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Layers could have been changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Dif . animals moved in the soil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Lord Blazer


Only- ADJECTIVE
1. Alone in kind or class; sole: "an only child; the only one left." 2. Standing alone by reason of superiority or excellence.



everything means multiple.
and i dont think that 'one god-multiple gods' is a minor difference


are you that stupid?

[Ramza Brave]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird




THE FLOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Layers could have been changed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Dif . animals moved in the soil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are such a stupid cunt. Learn how to fucking spell before you try telling other people they are wrong. They have more sense than you.

[BrimmZERO]

Evolution in the only Biblical thing I doubt. Because Tuberculosis has been proved to evolve

[Lord Blazer]

the flood has nothing to do with evolution. whatsoever.

game over. you lose.

and your saying theres only one difference, and then youre saying theres only small differences!!

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Ramza Brave


You are such a stupid cunt. Learn how to fucking spell before you try telling other people they are wrong. They have more sense than you.


who gives!

[Ramza Brave]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird



are you that stupid?

And don't call Lord Blazer stupid you aunt fucking redneck piece of shit. He's got way more worth than your gay ass.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Lord Blazer
the flood has nothing to do with evolution. whatsoever.

game over. you lose.

and your saying theres only one difference, and then youre saying theres only small differences!!


Why don't you just go read the bible then you'll shit your pants.

[Lord Blazer]

*does the 'raise the roof' thing*
*chair falls backwards*

[Lord Blazer]

*buys bible*
*reads 3 words*
*burns it*
*beats up children until he earns back $10*

[Klown]

DAMN ON THE RELIGIOUS THREADS!

[Tennessee Redbird]

Blazer, the only thing that is over is your chance for eternal live.

[BrimmZERO]

I do not participate in bible burning threads. bye

[Ramza Brave]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
Blazer, the only thing that is over is your chance for eternal live.

I think the inbread part of you is talking again.

[Lord Blazer]

i dont give a fuck.
hell, list a bunch of sins and i'll do them, followed by not confessing them (oh my!) and then ill take 11 items into the 10 items or less line, AGAIN! BOOHHAHAHA!

fuck god, fuck religon.

[Tennessee Redbird]

face it blazer, when the time is up, your gone. At least take a chance at eternal life. If your wrong so what. If your right you win. And you'll thank me.

[BrimmZERO]

Atheism aint a good thing

[Klown]

Question to Bibleman... If i support another religion like paganism, buddism etc and not believe in christianity WHAT will happen to me?

[Ramza Brave]

Face it Redbitch, HE DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK. SO GO DIE NOW, AND THEN YOU CAN FROLIC IN HEAVEN LIKE THE FAGGOT PIECE OF SHIT THAT YOU ARE!

[Tennessee Redbird]

You should at least take a chance , Blazer.

[BrimmZERO]

Originally posted by Crappy Klown
Question to Bibleman... If i support another religion like paganism, buddism etc and not believe in christianity WHAT will happen to me?

Same thing, they're all tied together

[Lord Blazer]

hey, i just realised, eternal life is an oxymoron!
because life is from when your boprn to when you die.

another oxymoron:
intelligent newbie

[Lord Blazer]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
You should at least take a chance , Blazer. ive said it before, i'll say it again.
i dont give a flying fuck.
*hops into plane with your mom*
maybe ill get a flying fuck though!

[Gorosaurus]

You guys really need some definition help, here.

No, I don't believe in evolution. Yes, I DEFINITELY believe in mutation. There is a difference, but I can't be bothered to get the whole Webster's thing going right now.

Anywho, Brimm, the whole viral changing thing is mutation, not evolution. Humans evolve constantly, it's how we deal with bacteria, viruses, cuts, scrapes, and whatever else.

But evolution? Gosh, if evolution turns everthing into super-advanced machines of survival, then why would there be different lifeforms on Earth?? By now there would be only one superanimal which could fly, cloak, swim, breath any type of gas, and whatever else you would want to add. That, would in turn, destroy all life on Earth, because everything would be too advanced to be readily preyed upon, or would just be destroyed too quickly for anything to reproduce. Anyway you look at it, evolution is a doomsday scenerio.

[Bravoie]

I

[BrimmZERO]

If you don't know what sins are, you'll go to heaven.
If you do, and commit sins without repention you go to hell.

If you never knew about christianism in the first place, you still go to heaven.

And if you believe in Atheism, that religions are a pile of shit, then you get to burn for eternity. Make the right choice

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Crappy Klown
Question to Bibleman... If i support another religion like paganism, buddism etc and not believe in christianity WHAT will happen to me?


if you love God and want to follow him you'll go to heaven. If you don't when God comes again you'll die. Eternal death. Then after along time satan will walk the earth to think about what he did. Heaven will then ascend on the new Jeruselum(Earth) and God will send fire of brimstone or whatever it's called and everything will burn. Including you.

[Lord Blazer]

Originally posted by BrimmZERO
And if you believe in Atheism, that religions are a pile of shit, then you get to burn for eternity.
*raise the roof*

[BrimmZERO]

hey Goro's right! Evolution doesn't exist! It's simply mutation! You learn a new thing everyday

[Cheezemaster]

why does everyone try to defend those opinion about Creation and Evolution?

We can prove that evolution is right.
We can't prove that creation is wrong.

The truth is Gorikiannism.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by BrimmZERO
If you don't know what sins are, you'll go to heaven.
If you do, and commit sins without repention you go to hell.

If you never knew about christianism in the first place, you still go to heaven.

And if you believe in Atheism, that religions are a pile of shit, then you get to burn for eternity. Make the right choice


pretty much, yeh.

[BrimmZERO]

and that thing about eternal life, being an oxymoron, you begin a new life when you die! duhh

[Lord Blazer]

well that would be reincarnation which means your not a christian

*puts on tenn. redbird suit*
*points to brimmzero*
unclean! UNCLEAN!!

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Lord Blazer
well that would be reincarnation which means your not a christian

*puts on tenn. redbird suit*
*points to brimmzero*
unclean! UNCLEAN!!


It's not always like that.

[BrimmZERO]

Reincarnation is when you start a new life ON EARTH!

In heaven, it's a whole new life with a new body

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by BrimmZERO
Reincarnation is when you start a new life ON EARTH!

In heaven, it's a whole new life with a new body


well a more pure body

[Lord Blazer]

Originally posted by BrimmZERO
Reincarnation is when you start a new life ON EARTH!

In heaven, it's a whole new life with a new body

you didnt say 'in heaven'!

[BrimmZERO]

Well, oops! Well anyway, thats waht I meant.

Download "Burn In Hell" in KaZaA.

The vocals suck, but it makes a good point on what we're talkin about

[Lord Blazer]

how about you suck my ass?

[Tennessee Redbird]

how about read the bible and take a chance.

[Sammy Sagitarius]

Idiot...

Mutations are changes in DNA structure from the parent to the child... Downs syndrome is a mutation in the DNA strands. Evolution is the same as adaptation. And we all know things adapt to their surroundings.

Things with mutations don't tend to pro-create. And I don't want to be misquoted here: Not all birth defects are caused by mutation.

[Lord Blazer]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
how about read the bible and take a chance.

*reaches out window*
*grabs smoldering bible*
*waves in redbird's face*
*pulls out lighter*
*burns and throws back out window*

[BrimmZERO]

Hey, you didnt read it...

:puppyeyes

[Lord Blazer]

*buys bible*
*reads 3 words*
*burns it*
*beats up children until he earns back $10*
i got bored.

[Ramza Brave]

Someone close this topic. PLease!!!!!!!!!

[BrimmZERO]

It's one of the fastest growing topics, Ill grant it that

[Andres]

Originally posted by Gorosaurus
But evolution? Gosh, if evolution turns everthing into super-advanced machines of survival, then why would there be different lifeforms on Earth?? By now there would be only one superanimal which could fly, cloak, swim, breath any type of gas, and whatever else you would want to add. That, would in turn, destroy all life on Earth, because everything would be too advanced to be readily preyed upon, or would just be destroyed too quickly for anything to reproduce. Anyway you look at it, evolution is a doomsday scenerio.


You obviously don't quite get these concepts. WHY would a creature need to fly, swim, walk, etc.? All it needs is to survive. If the habitat is already saturated, they move to another habitat and start changing there. It's a balance. The situation you just described goes completely AGAINST evolution. Evolution, or natural selection, states that the traits and qualities that benefit an organism are the ones that stay, technically.

single celled organisms started changing into multicellular organisms to be more efficient. mutations happen because of randomness and the mutations that favor the species for survival remain, thus there's more and more of these traits and the less fit die off.

there are different lifeforms because there are different habitats, and a species won't get any benefit if it overturns all the other species. this has happened in several habitats, when another species is introduced and it wipes the whole habitat out. it doesn't happen in the normal situation because there is a BALANCE. if humans eat every single other animal on earth, then they either eat each other or die. no, that's not what happens. they eat many of the other animals, and THEN they start dying because there are few animals to eat, and then the animals start growing in sizes and THEN the cycle starts again.

your theory on why evolution doesn't make sense isn't even based on the logics of natural selection and evolution, son. please know what you're talking about before you start this random bullshit. thank you and goodbye.

[Sammy Sagitarius]

Golly, Andres. I think I love you. But I promise not to hump your leg.

The man speaks truth; unfiltered truth; truth2O, Purified Truth; a Concoction of correctness and truth, slightly blended with 'you're an idiot' overtones; He is the brilliance of Evolution.

I smell poop on my nose...

[Brix]

http://a740.g.akamai.net/f/740/606/1d/image.pathfinder.com/time/covers/1101010723/images/apes_timeline1.gif

[Brix]

from: http://books.nap.edu/html/creationism/evidence.html
Numbers are in Millions of Years Since First Known Appearance


Life Form
Microbial (procaryotic cells) - 3,500
Complex (eucaryotic cells) - 2,000
First multicellular animals - 670
Shell-bearing animals - 540
Vertebrates (simple fishes) - 490
Amphibians - 350
Reptiles - 310
Mammals - 200
Nonhuman primates - 60
Earliest apes - 25
Australopithecine ancestors of humans - 4
Modern humans - 0.15 (150,000 years)

[Matt McGowan]

this is what happened

while the jews were being exiled by the babylonians in 667 A.D., some writers wanted to give them hope. these writers were some of the greatest of all time. They made stories about noah's ark, adam and eve, cain and abel etc. to uplift the spirits of the jews. it made them think that there was a god who loved them and that would always be watching them.

the book of exodus is true though, there is evidence in egypt that shows that the egyptians used jews as slaves the rest of the story.

so no, none of the whole book of genesis is true. it was just there to help the jews during their time of struggle

this is why i believe in evolution.

[Tennessee Redbird]

all of Genisis is true. All of the Bible is true.

[Matt McGowan]

im not saying all of the bible is false. yes, there was a man named jesus who was a carpenter... there are historical documents... he may not have neccessarily been the son of man though.

im saying that all of genesis is false. it was written to give jews hope during their exile in 667 B.C.

now its your turn to give me proof to back up your statement that "all of genesis is true"

[Matt McGowan]

the story about a god loving them, having created them, and that there would be hope again, built up their confidence... thus helping them get through the exile

[Lord Blazer]

*pulls out baseball bat*
*smashes tenn. redbird over the head*
*takes him to lake*
*bashes head in with baseball bat again*
*hammers nails into feet*
walk across the lake. now.
there ya go.
proof and point.

and try to back up you opinions with facts,not more opinions.

[Matt McGowan]

well said blazer

i was just like him when i was younger... thinking that everything about religion was true... and that was that

now time to back up your opinion, youngin`

[Michael Klamo]

i reckon anyone who comes in to this board to preach christianity will be eaten alive. there are the people who do believe in it but there is just so much opposition to it that its not worth doing.

[Digital Taco]

I hate those Christian fucks (not all of them) that just can't accept that people have other, or a lack of, faiths.

[Michael Klamo]

i hate it when you ask them for evidence on the bible and crap and their reply is 'the bible is true' or 'the bible is the basis of everything' and they dont provide any evidence at all. just a crappy answer.

[Digital Taco]

Yeah, I know.

Why the hell should I believe the bible?
Because the BIBLE says so.

[Michael Klamo]

I want to have fun in my life and be free of boundaries!
No you can`t!
Why not?
Because the Bible says so!

[Damage Jackal]

ok, the stupidity of all the bible bashers here actually physically hurts me. it hurts my head.

[Kieran McIlwain]

Originally posted by Xclexski
Watch him answer this one:

Redbird, how do you know your religion is the correct one out of the many that exist?

Religious arguments are all about who's got a better imaginary friend!

Moving on though, I accept there is some divine force in the world, but I don't belive in the crap written in the bible. People look back at Greek Myths and Legends and say "Haw haw! Teehee, a giant...WITH ONE EYE HAHAHAH!!!"
The Greeks, on the other hand, belived with all their might, that on that island where ever it was, the cyclops lived there, etc etc.

The bible is just a way of explaining why things happen. In several thousand years, people will look back at the Bible and say
"Haw haw! Teehee, a man...WALKING ON WATER HAHAHAH!!!"

[Sinarach]

Tennessee, prey for us.

Musliems... pray for us.

Bruddist, prey for us.

Momans- you better prey for us.

Satanist- start preying.


We are soooo covered.

[Cal Flavell]

I was brought up with Seventh Day Adventism

"The world will be destroyed by fire on April 3rd 1843."

William Miller of New England originally made this prophecy for 1883, but decided (when it didn't come true) that he must have been a decade out. The New York Herald published his 1843 prediction, and when a comet appeared in March his followers, the 'Millerites', began killing themselves and their families in order to get to heaven early. On 3 April thousands gathered on a hilltop overlooking Miller's home. On 4 April Miller decided that the date must be 7 July, and told the faithful to dig their own graves and order coffins. He also sold them special white shrouds for the occasion. On 8 July he announced the date as 21 March 1844. On 22 March 1844 he decided that it was 22 October. The 100,000 Millerites had had enough; they dispersed, and one faction formed the Church of the Seventh Day Adventists.

William Miller was a moron.

The Seventh Day Adventists are morons.

Tennessee Redbird is a moron.

[Sinarach]

Can you not do that please?

It's supposed to highlight important information.

[Cal Flavell]

Which is why we never see any of your posts in bold.

[Sinarach]

I was trying to be nice, fatfuck.

[Tuffe John]

I feel sick when i read this topic..only thing I really agree on is


Originally posted by Cal Flavell
Tennessee Redbird is a moron.

[Cal Flavell]

No, you were designating my post as "unimportant".

[Sinarach]

Not your post, just your redicilously huge sentences.

If everyone who had already showed their disprovment to Tennessee said it like you did, it would of became a nussicance.

[Cal Flavell]

I felt my post was more important than "Tennessee, shut up". It quite clearly showed why the Seventh Day Adventists are the stupidest religion on earth.

But whatever. I don't wanna fight with ya... I might as well edit it.

[Jon]

There was something on the discovery channel (or tlc... can't remember) called THE REAL EVE. It was pretty cool, i think tenesee redbird needs to watch this program.

[Tennessee Redbird]

I watched it.

[Tennessee Redbird]

nothing but stupid. and the other show about Jesus living through the crucifiction

[Pizza The Hut]

Evolution exists. It must. Natural selection - an animal would need to fly, swim, etc. if predators on land would keep eating it. So flying, swimming, etc. is necessary to survive.

[BrimmZERO]

When an animal moves into a new environment, it adapts. It doesn't evolve.

Cuz there's dogs for all over the world, but they're still dogs no matter if they're husky or poodle, so they didn't evolve


Anyways, this thread is stupid.

If athieths will be atheists, ok.

If Christians will be Christians, dont try and stop them. Because no matter what you say here, it's only a Internet Board

[Shaun]

Originally posted by Andres De La Hoz
Believing the bible as an accurate depiction of creation is being SILLY. You should know that a book translated from a then dead language by people with few qualifications to do so is gonna be heavily inaccurate. Evolution DID happen, DOES happen, and there's tons and tons of proof of it. you can be foolish and not believe it, or you can be a sheep and do so.
You have to say that to my friend.
He never fucking believes me.
I say to him, stuff about evolution.

Him: What proof do you have of evolution?
Me: There's tons of proof! How to do you think monkeys turned into people?
Him: God made monkeys, God made people.
Me: What proof do you have the bible is correct? How do you know some person just did make it all up?
Him: Faith
Me: Thats Not Proof!
Him: Yes it is.

Out arguement goes on for about an hour. I bring up all this evolution stuff, and he brings up all this crap about possessed people, and other proof God did stuff.

I dont know why we argue it's totally pointless. I believe in God and all, but I'm seriously losing my faith, because if God is watching us, he doesn't give a rats ass.

Like that thing in Fight Club.
God Never wanted you, he doesn't like you, and all in all, may hate you.

[BrimmZERO]

well if he is up there, we're like his ant farm. You dont see people coming in to an ant farm, he just watches us...i guess

[Whitey]

What I don't understand is why none of the amazing phenomenon that is written in the bible happens anymore.

In biblical times you've got guys walking on water, men parting seas, magical burning bushes, people seeing angels, talking snakes, and enough fish in one picnic basket to feed hundreds of people.

Alright...when's the last time you saw some guy part a fucking sea? When's the last time a snake poked his head out of a tree and started a conversation with you? For crying out loud...the bible sounds like a Sci-Fi movie.

[Shaun]

Jimmah Peterson
...

I'm going to need reference to what he just said. So I wrote that so I can search for it.

[Tennessee Redbird]

How about this for proof that the Bible is real. DEAD SEA SCROLLS!

[Tennessee Redbird]

how do you explain that?

[Shaun]

What the hell is a dead see scroll?

[Lord Blazer]

in elementary, i learned in enrichment class that every 200 years or so, the red sea naturally parts right where moses was, or something like that.
this means that what happened to moses has a 99% chance of being just a coincedence.

[Shaun]

Wouldn't his face be red!

[Gorosaurus]

Originally posted by Lord Blazer
in elementary, i learned in enrichment class that every 200 years or so, the red sea naturally parts right where moses was, or something like that.
this means that what happened to moses has a 99% chance of being just a coincedence.

Oh man, I can't believe you just said that. Please, grab a mallot, smash your moniter, and never look at another computer again. And people call biblical stories ridiculous....


Okay people, it's about time we finally
END THIS CONVERSATION NOW

It's so pointless, I believe that everyone here can agree with me when I say that no one is going to change their beliefs here. Let's not let religious predjudice ruin any relationships here. [/Evangelism]


Seeya in a worthwhile thread, guys

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by BrimmZERO
When an animal moves into a new environment, it adapts. It doesn't evolve.

You're a moron. Have you ever taken a science class before?

[Will B-R]

Originally posted by Whitey
....the bible sounds like a Sci-Fi movie.

That is just so true!

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Xclexski


You're a moron. Have you ever taken a science class before?




He probably has. It's called adaptation.

[Will B-R]

But isn’t that evolution? When a creature evolves to suit its surroundings?

[Tennessee Redbird]

The dead sea scrolls were books of the bible found near the dead sea in a cave. Itwas found by some kid.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Will B-R
But isn’t that evolution? When a creature evolves to suit its surroundings?



It called adapton. It will get used to the surroundings.

[Will B-R]

How does that prove that the bible is real?

[Tennessee Redbird]

God created them that way so they could adapt.

[Will B-R]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird




It called adapton. It will get used to the surroundings.

Yes but isn't that just the same thing as evolution?

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Whitey
What I don't understand is why none of the amazing phenomenon that is written in the bible happens anymore.

In biblical times you've got guys walking on water, men parting seas, magical burning bushes, people seeing angels, talking snakes, and enough fish in one picnic basket to feed hundreds of people.

Alright...when's the last time you saw some guy part a fucking sea? When's the last time a snake poked his head out of a tree and started a conversation with you? For crying out loud...the bible sounds like a Sci-Fi movie.


Hello, Jesus performed these miracles on Earth.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Will B-R


Yes but isn't that just the same thing as evolution?


In a way it is but it's not. It's called micro eveluton or something. But it's adaption.

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
Hello, Jesus performed these miracles on Earth.

FACTS, you immature, incoherent sheep. Start using actual information or get the hell out.

[Tennessee Redbird]

I am using facts. You just can't see it.

[Will B-R]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
Hello, Jesus performed these miracles on Earth.

Only as far as you know! All of that could be a lie.

[BrimmZERO]

There is a lot of truth behind christianity, but if others cant see it redbird, just let them believe what they will

[Tennessee Redbird]

He wanted to know

[Tennessee Redbird]

but all right. I wasn't even trying to get them believe me. All I was doing was asking what they believed and this started.

[Brix]

This thread needs to be archived

[Tennessee Redbird]

why?

[Brix]

It's halarious and proves how much of a bible-thumper you are.

and adaption is when you learn to deal with your surroundings without changing your physical body. Also called learning to cope.

evolution is when you change your body to deal with your surroundings, like growing fins or gills, or a protective exoskelton.

[Xclexski]

Evolution

a. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

b. Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.


Adaptation

a. Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.

b. The responsive adjustment of a sense organ, such as the eye, to varying conditions, such as light intensity.


As you can see, evolution is a process that happens over a long period of time to help an organism survive in its environment. It's not that hard to understand, although I doubt your feeble mind can grasp it.

Adaptation is not the same as evolution. It's a change that an individual organism makes to survive in the current time, while evolution is only eventually seen after many generations.

[Brix]

I'm gunna scan some pages from my Biology book and post em in a while

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by Brix
It's halarious and proves how much of a bible-thumper you are.

and adaption is when you learn to deal with your surroundings without changing your physical body. Also called learning to cope.

evolution is when you change your body to deal with your surroundings, like growing fins or gills, or a protective exoskelton.
Exactly. Either Redbird learns to adapt and become more intelligent or die.


Or, over many generations his descendants will eventually develop a larger brain capacity. Though it's unlikely; I doubt he'll ever reproduce because he is so pathetic.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Brix
It's halarious and proves how much of a bible-thumper you are.

and adaption is when you learn to deal with your surroundings without changing your physical body. Also called learning to cope.

evolution is when you change your body to deal with your surroundings, like growing fins or gills, or a protective exoskelton.


They don't grow fins or whatever when they adapt!

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
I am using facts. You just can't see it.

No, I can't see it because I'm blinded by your blindness. You're posting without actually saying anything.

[Will B-R]

Some of the ideas behind Christianity maybe be good ideas but on the hole religion and all this thing about god has only cusses more trouble than it is worth.

[Will B-R]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
They don't grow fins or whatever when they adapt!

That's what he just said!

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Xclexski


No, I can't see it because I'm blinded by your blindness. You're posting without actually saying anything.


that doesn't make sense.

[Brix]

Ok Redbird. I'm gonna break this down into very simple terms, I hope your one-way brain can comprehend this:

Evolution = Change

Adaption = Learning to Cope

[Xclexski]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird



They don't grow fins or whatever when they adapt!
OMG. You retard. No, they don't because it's A D A P T A T I O N. When organisms E V O L V E they can develop new organs and structures in their bodies.

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird



that doesn't make sense.

Yes it does, you just can't comprehend it. You're saying that the bible is true 'because its there', which I should add that you haven't witnessed anything you're speaking of either. You're not using any facts to back up what you say.

[Brix]

Redbird probably left science class when they discussed Evolution because it offended him.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Xclexski

OMG. You retard. No, they don't because it's A D A P T A T I O N. When organisms E V O L V E they can develop new organs and structures in their bodies.

I know


Yes it does, you just can't comprehend it. You're saying that the bible is true 'because its there', which I should add that you haven't witnessed anything you're speaking of either. You're not using any facts to back up what you say.


That is not what I was talking about.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Brix
Redbird probably left science class when they discussed Evolution because it offended him.


It doesn't offend me. The book we have dis agrees with evelution

[Brix]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird
It doesn't offend me. The book we have dis agrees with evelution Then you MUST be from the south...

Definitions of both words in my Biology book:

Adaption - Process of becoming adapted to an environment

Evolution - Change in the genetic makeup in a population of species overtime, done sometimes to improve an organism or specie's likelihood of survival and reproduction.

[Will B-R]

It seems he is just using it as a way to explain things he doesn’t really understand. If you get me.

[Tennessee Redbird]

Originally posted by Brix
Then you MUST be from the south...

Definitions of both words in my Biology book:

Adaption - Process of becoming adapted to an environment

Evolution - Change in the genetic makeup in a population of species overtime, done sometimes to improve an organism or specie's likelihood of survival and reproduction.


How did you figure that out? *Being sarcastic*

[Xclexski]

Redbird, what grade are you in?

[Tennessee Redbird]

8th

[Whitey]

Redbird...I understand that you think Jesus did all of these so-called "miracles".

But why don't they happen today?

[Xclexski]

HAHAH, eight grade? I guess people around here are just generally more intelligent.

[Gorosaurus]

Maybe you guys kind of missed my size 40 font stating what should be done about this discussion....


TO CLEAR THINGS UP FOR THE LAAAAST TIME:

Most Judeo/Christians believe that the Earth we know of today is relatively young, as the great deluge wiped out most life on it only 5,000 years ago. Evolution states that any changes made take A LONG, LONG, TIME. Starwars type stuff. Therefore, there is no room for discernable evolution in any way.

Oh, and Brix... that adaptation thing was the worst definition job I've ever seen


But all that doesn't matter!
Wanna' know why?


Because
THIS THREAD IS OVER

[Xclexski]

It's only over because the people that follow the bible blindly have no more argument left and keep leaving empty posts.

[Gorosaurus]

It's not a secret, the Christian faith is based almost totally on blind faith.... at first. I won't even get into later, as I'm not even at that stage yet

[Shaun]

...........................I cant.....................see.

[Xclexski]

If Redbird can disprove evolution in this thread, I will leave to become a monk.

[Kieran McIlwain]

Evoloution:

Take the example of the giraffe. Some people belive evoloution to be that to reach the higher branches, they strained their necks, and passed these genes onto their children. WRONG.

Some giraffes were born with a longer neck, as a genetic mutation. These giraffes didn't have to compete for food, as he was able to reach higher, and survived longer. Short-necked giraffes=DYING.

He then passed these genes onto his offspring, untill; Short-necked giraffes=EXTINCT.

Why aren't they still evolving? They've reached a point where they can survive sufficiently.


And once again I reiterate my point of Bible-Stories being just that, STORIES to explain why things happen. People laugh at Greek and Roman Myths as being stupid, but in time, people will look back at the bible and say "A man...walking on water? HAHAHAH!!!"

[Xclexski]

"A man...walking on water? HAHAHAH!!!"

Uh, I think that was supposed to be unbelievable.

[Andres]

I don't understand why you people expect him to give you valid reasons if it's perfectly obvious that he has no idea what evolution is and that he's apparently had a religious upbringing. Teach your son religiously and he'll end up being a sheep. Let him think... he'll be me.

[Lord Blazer]

i remember in science we watched a video explaining evolution.
there were little bacteria cells, all yellow.
then they started dividing, but they were dieing really fast. then on one division, a blue one popped up. he outlasted the rest. then after a while the blue ones started dieing. then pink ones came along, and they started linking, meaning multicellular organisms. then the video stopped and moveed onto other stuff.

i forget what the whole of the video was about. i'll have to check my notes and see where it stated evolution and shit.
whatever.

[Andres]

AIDS is a good example of evolution.

[Lord Blazer]

how?

didnt that just get started with a guy fucking a monkey?

i dont want to mention any names....cause i cant think of anyone currently in the community that i dont like.

[Sammy Sagitarius]

Originally posted by Lord Blazer
how?

didnt that just get started with a guy fucking a monkey?

i dont want to mention any names....cause i cant think of anyone currently in the community that i dont like.

I like you, blazer, I do... so please take NO OFFENSE when I say:

WTF are you on? AIDS was supposedly started when a sailor was bit by a monkey, and then had sex with a human. Monkies are immune to the virus (which is why we're looking to them for cures) and humans suffer from it. And also, Andres, I don't see how AIDS shows evolution. I'm not very informed on different types of AIDS (if there are different strands) so please elaborate. I'm really interested... But, as has been said, you cannot convince a Christian their religion is wrong... If they don't figure it out by the end of their lives, they die "knowing" they'll go to heaven. What harm does that cause? So, they've lived a lie... as long as they don't SHOVE their religion's onto others, no harm done. And just reading back, Redbird hasn't tried to convince us to believe his way, he's tried to convince us that HE is right for believing. The fact that he hasn't said "YOU MUST BELIEVE" is a point for him... I do believe someone said that "then they've chosen their fates" (meaning, we'll go to hell) - I don't believe in Heaven or Hell, so I don't care if he thinks I'm going there. If you don't believe it, why is it affecting you?

Also, on a side note, I was reading the Church of Satan stuff, and that looks surprisingly utopian... i like the ideas, full-knowing it could never work that way...

[Lord Blazer]

aids getting started by a guy fucking a monkey

its all ive heard since like 2nd grade.
even the teachers say so.

we were talkin bout aids in science class, and one girl said 'didnt aids get started with a guy who.....liked...monkeys?'

and the teacher said it was that for the most part, so......yeah....

[Sammy Sagitarius]

What the hell? A man did NOT have sex with a monkey to start AIDS... I have seen 2 seperate videos that claimed AIDS has been traced back to a Sailor in the late 70's...

What fucking school do you go to? Everyone needs to know it was me when it ends up the next School Shooting... "Dumbass Teachers Dead in AIDS Debate"

[Jon]

it started by people eating a certain monkey not FUCKING! you're teacher is a fuckin' retard... like most teachers usually are.

[Gray Fox]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_269000/269306.stm

[Space Goat]

Originally posted by Sammy Sagitarius
AIDS has been traced back to a Sailor in the late 70's...
http://membres.lycos.fr/go2bed/DA/popeye.jpg
And so his legend continues...

[Sammy Sagitarius]

HAAAAHHAAA... THAT is fucking CLASSIC...

This DOES need to be archived. That is the best post EVAR!
breathes
...ahhh

[Lord Blazer]

I'm pop-eye the sailor man
I live in a garbage can
I eat lots of scrap
and turn it to crap
cause im pop-eye the sailor man
toot-toot

[Damage Jackal]

Jesus Christ

AKA Jesus of Nazareth, The Fightin' Jesus, Joshua ben Joseph, Steven Bevilacqua, Jesus Christ Devilacqua, Steve
Humanoid son of Jehovah-1.

In his first incarnation, he preached a naive "peace and love" gospel, which quickly got distorted by his followers into a mammoth multibillion-dollar tool of the Conspiracy commonly known as Christianity. However, in his second incarnation, he is a pleasant guy named Steve who is making up for his past wrongs by working diligently for the SubGenius Church. Reportedly, he is dangerous when angered.

jesuys uncovered!

[Kieran McIlwain]

God was sitting up in heaven talking to a few angels, and asking for suggestions for holiday destinations.

"How about Mars?" Ventured one angel
"Nah, went there 15,000 years ago. Too dusty and not enough atmosphere." God replied
"Pluto?" Another one tried
"Went there 5000 years ago, too fucking cold."
"Well what about earth then?" The first angel offered
"Nah, went there 2000 years ago. Screwed some Isreli bird and they're still talking about it!"

[Cal Flavell]

Take the example of the giraffe. Some people belive evoloution to be that to reach the higher branches, they strained their necks, and passed these genes onto their children. WRONG.

Some giraffes were born with a longer neck, as a genetic mutation. These giraffes didn't have to compete for food, as he was able to reach higher, and survived longer. Short-necked giraffes=DYING.

He then passed these genes onto his offspring, untill; Short-necked giraffes=EXTINCT.

It's kinda like how all the dipshit redneck guys who believe the bible is 100% true will be extinct in the next century.

Ironically, I thank God for that.

[BrimmZERO]

Originally posted by Tennessee Redbird





He probably has. It's called adaptation.

Exactly

[Whitey]

I agree. AIDS is a good example of evolution.

The scariest thing about evolution is diseases. For example...say you get some nasty bacteria stuff on your hands from maybe cooking a chicken or whatnot. You go into the bathroom and wash your hands with ANTIBACTERIAL soap. You think that this will kill the bacteria off and you are safe, right?

The truth is that yes, the soap will kill a lot of the bacteria. But some of the bacteria, the strongest and most fit bacteria, will survive. Survival of the fittest. When you use antibacterial soap, you kill off the normal bacteria but the strong bacteria survives and if this sort of "super bacteria" gets into your body it can make you really sick and cause new strains of viruses. That's why antibacterial soap is really not a great idea.

I read an article about this all in Time Magazine. Can't remember it fully but it was something like that.

[Michael Klamo]

anti-bacterial soap just means that it kills more germs than normal soap, but they dont put enough anti bacterial in the soap to make any difference.

[Deano]

Tennessee bird, why are you so 100% into beleif
Cant you just let your mind wonder for a little bit?
I mean I beleive in science and its theories, but I am willing to think about the christian theory, but I'm just not willing to beleive in it.

I respect all religions, I just dont respect the people, like Tennessee bird who ignorantly take for granted the world was 100% based on his religion and everyone should be into it.
It's repulsive , and it's an invasion of someone's right to beleive in what they want to think.

[Kieran McIlwain]

Dean just said what I think we've been trying to say.

[Michael Klamo]

good call dean. i think thats exactly what we reckon. i dont think you can ever convince someone like redbird to get off the faith because he believes in it too much, and because of that he`s not willing to drift. and in a mind of a real believer, i think there is also a fear of god.